Your thoughts on warlocks

[dedicated]

I'm starting a new thread for the see the unseen Invocation debate so it doesn't take up to much room in this one

 

[Thanee]

I don't get that. By the errata, EB is an invocation. The essences are invocations. All invocations are spell-like abilities. Ability focus applies to one and only one spell-like ability.

Eldritch essences are not like other invocations, they are not used normally, their use and functionality is merged into the eldritch blast, same with blast shapes. Basically you use two or three invocations together in one use of the eldritch blast.

It quite clearly says how it works in the CA rules about essences and blast shapes.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

Here's also a bit from the errata:

Other invocations provide a warlock with the ability to modify his eldritch blast ...

These "other invocations" are the essences and blast shapes.

They modify the eldritch blast, but what you use in the end is the eldritch blast, so feats have to apply to this not the other invocations.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Nightfall]

I honestly don't believe it is overpowered. Yes you can use eldritch blast at will, yes your invocations can determine their power, BUT it's not as bad as a wizard that can cast fireball at will because it is a spell-like ability.

I've started using one with a tielfling so I've probably nerfed a good portion of his spellcasting power. But otherwise I'm no stand out among the other players.

 

[kigmatzomat]

It quite clearly says how it works in the CA rules about essences and blast shapes.

And we all know that the rules in CA are perfect and need no revision at all. Once you rewrite something as completely as happened to Eldritch Blast, I'm not sure CA can remain more than a suggestion.

Eldritch essences are not like other invocations, they are not used normally, their use and functionality is merged into the eldritch blast, same with blast shapes. Basically you use two or three invocations together in one use of the eldritch blast.

In my mind I liken it to Hallow, where it has an effect but you can add other spells to it. If you had hallow as a spell-like ability and the Empower Ability(Hallow) feat, would the spells you tied to the Hallow also be Empowered?

 

[apesamongus]

And we all know that the rules in CA are perfect and need no revision at all. Once you rewrite something as completely as happened to Eldritch Blast, I'm not sure CA can remain more than a suggestion.

Official rules remain valid unless explicitly changed. You can pretend whatever you want, but you're no longer discussing the rules.

 

[Nightfall]

Which is why people whine about "power gaming" when the rules don't change to suit them.

Me I'm fine with adding in warlock. It's not a powerful class and there are PLENTY of monsters with SR that can withstand it OR just have enough DR to take it out.

 

[DM_Matt]

I tihnk the issue here is that Warlocks can be made more powerful with less optimization than most classes. An iconic warlock is a little strong compared to an iconic sorc, and a slightly optimized (basically the standard MM feats suggested in CA and the no-brainer Chausable of Whatchacallit) Warlock is better than most equally-optimized characters. However, thats about as far as it goes. You cant make them much better from there and there is little extra materials for them -- no prc compatibility, few relevant feats, few useful items. However, compared to a strongly min-maxed character of another class, they can't compete.

 

[Nightfall]

Yeah, plus if a CE optimized Warlock meets a truly awesome paladin with a powerful holy avenger, he's not going to last that long, no matter HOW many eldritch blasts he gets off. (Especially so if he using the following sources: Player's Guide to Monks and Paladins, Quin Paladin II, and of course any and all Malhavoc d20 stuff.) Oh if said paladin is also a Justicar of Tyr or even a dwarven paladin/hammer of Moridin, kiss his butt GOODBYE!

 

[Particle_Man]

Also, Cone gives a save vs. damage part for half damage, and is pretty darn close range for my Warlock's liking.

There is one official feat to help get out of a grapple: Sudden Still (combine with Flee the Scene) for a 1/day chance. If your DM is kind, you could homebrew a Still Spell-like Ability to do this 3x per day.

And the tentacles is also one you can't get until 11th. So the Warlock with Eldritch Cone, Bewitching Blast and Chill Tentacles is 15th level. At 15th level a Wizard or Cleric or Druid is casting 8th level spells and laughing at the puny Warlock. The Sorceror is casting 7th level spells and is at least snickering. The only thing helping the Warlock at higher levels is the ability to make magic items (if you have the relevant feat) by "Faking" the spell prerequisites.

Also, the Warlock did not take Vitriolic Blast as one of his only three greater invocations! Sucks to be him, he has to make SR rolls now. Maybe the Extra Invocation feat will remedy this when he is 18th level. Or he could "burn" a dark invocation slot at 16th, or 18th or 20th level, but then has less dark invocations (and extra invocation as a feat never helps you get more dark invocations).

Frankly, I would have thought that a Warlock would be easier for a DM to deal with, since the Dm knows what the character can do, and what "combos" are possible. Trying to plan vs. a wizard with a fat spell-book is a DM nightmare by comparison.