Your thoughts on warlocks

[JamesDJarvis]

Can a Warlock use more then one invocation at a time? Can the warlock have an invocation running and still use an eldritch blast?

 

[dedicated]

You're dismissing rouge/warlocks, after all +6 to diplomacy and bluff all day hmm.. and I can get to fly! Nice.
Yhe eldritch blast to 250 ft doesn't hurt either

 

[Kae'Yoss]

Can a Warlock use more then one invocation at a time? Can the warlock have an invocation running and still use an eldritch blast?

Of course

 

[hazmat]

There's a warlock in the game that I play that's highly effective in combat though one dimensional.

The warlock consistently hits and does damage except when dealing with things that have SR. Though he's now at the level where he can get around that with an invocation.

Recently, the character tried sneaking around while spider climbing and invisible. His low skill points meant he didn't have any in MS so the monks in the area kept hearing him and became very suspicious.

He does more damage than our rogue without any effort. While the rogue has to do feints and other tricks to get his sneak attack on.

I think that most of their invocations have a lot of flavor but their eldritch blast is a horrible, horrible ability. 3/4 BAB + good dex + 2 feats means they will rarely miss a touch attack.

 

[farscapesg1]

You're dismissing rouge/warlocks, after all +6 to diplomacy and bluff all day hmm.. and I can get to fly! Nice.
Yhe eldritch blast to 250 ft doesn't hurt either

Not to mention adding sneak attack damage to the Eldritch Blast. Throw in the fact that it is a ranged touch attack and it is pretty easy to hit with.

Of course, now I am torn between the idea of a rogue/warlock, or a scout/warlock

 

[Kae'Yoss]

He does more damage than our rogue without any effort. While the rogue has to do feints and other tricks to get his sneak attack on.

Really? Even though he can only do one eldritch blast per round, while the rogue can have several due to haste, iterative attacks for high BAB, and maybe multiclassing?

 

[hazmat]

Kae'Yoss: Yeah, the rogue is a thrower. He's specialized in throwing tricks. We also don't have access to haste in our party. We're also relatively low magic.

We have a cleric, druid, rogue and warlock in the group.

 

[AuraSeer]

Can a Warlock use more then one invocation at a time? Can the warlock have an invocation running and still use an eldritch blast?

No and yes, in that order.
Activating an invocation is a standard action, which means you can only activate one per round. But you certainly can have more than one invocation running at a time; it's just like a wizard having one spell active when he casts another.

 

[Krelios]

The DM not only has to plan for the quantity of abilities a character has, but also the quantity of uses. If a warlock is inclined to charm every NPC the party encounters, how do you deal with that every time it happens? If the warlock can turn every battlefield into a morass of black tentacles, how do you deal with that every single time it happens?

If you have a PC that uses the same ability over and over, design different encounters. If you're so set in your ways that your encounters will all fall to the same tactic, then there's not much you can complain about is there? If the warlock charms every NPC, how long will it take for them to start sending people to deal with him? If there are no consequences for such actions in your world, then there are going to be problems with wizards/sorcerers/clerics/bards/etc. who use similar tactics.

Now folks, I'm pretty sure I can't reach Krelios--I know "glib dismissal mode" when I see it--but when he issues his blithe, vague response of "oh, there's a thousand different ways for a good DM to deal with it", realize that is actually what we're talking about. It certainly will feel like a thousand.

I'll try not to stoop to personal attacks here. I was simply pointing out that it is the responsibility of a DM to know his or her party and plan encounters appropriately. No DM can ever be fully prepared for any encounter, though, as I said before, an experienced DM can certainly make a case-by-case decision for situations that occur during the game--that's what it's all about.

Also, remember that ultimately, you actually have to allow the warlock to get away with some of the exploitive ways that he uses his abilities. After all, from his point of view, you allowed the class--why deny him his mischief?

We're in perfect agreement here.

No, that's called self-delusion. You are not some enlightened higher being in touch with the zen of DMiing that allows you to flawlessly predict and resolve all possible outcomes of a given situation. You are just a normal, fallable schlub with a finite ability to anticipate what others will do.

Again, with the personal attacks? I really wish you'd simply support your argument. I never said I was perfect, I did say that I am perfectly capable of straying outside of a set of hard and fast plans to adjust to what my players do. In the end, every DM has to make hundreds if not thousands of minor little corrections, adjustments and decisions based on what the party can do. Certainly, you're not saying that you plan out every conceivable option ahead of time so that no deviation from your plot is possible? I am working from the premise that DMing requires creativity, and I don't think the warlock presents any more of a challenge than any other class capable of casting spells.

At the risk of going off topic, what do you do in similar situations with other classes? A sorcerer who can Teleport for example? Or a bard with a +30 Diplomacy? How is handling the Warlock any different?

 

[Thanee]

See the Unseen--See invisible creatures. Available at 1st level.

Yep, there are a lot of those invisible creatures around at 1st level.

It's a good invocation, but hardly broken.

A sorcerer or wizard with a bat familiar also gets a nice invisibility-detector at 1st level. Not as good as the invocation, but good enough.

Charm--Use charm monster at will, with the restriction that only one creature can be charmed at a time. Available at 6th level. Note that wizards can't even cast charm monster until 7th level (and a sorcerer 8th), so this one's really over-the-top. Think not just about combat abuses, but abuses in dealing with NPC's, performing negotiations, going shopping in town, etc.

Charming NPCs is an abuse? Wow! I thought, that's like what charming is for in the first place.

Besides, there is one really big limitation in the invocation, which Charm Monster does not suffer from... you'll only notice it, if you read the description carefully, tho.

Fell Flight--Can fly at your land speed. Available at 6th. Not as bad as some of these others, but it can certainly spoil a lot of challenges a DM might set before PC's of that level.

Just like all the flying spells/powers.

Having it up all day long at moderate levels is pretty huge, of course, combined with the nice ranged attack, but at higher levels its power will cease to impress quickly.

I don't even plan to pick that invocation up at all, tho, there are so many nice ones out there (ok 'so many' is a bit of an overstatement, but enough to have trouble choosing the very few you can learn). But who knows...

Chilling Tentacles--Create Evard's black tentacles that deal 2d6 cold damage in addition to their normal effects. Available at 11th level. Now, EBT is a broken spell in its own right, and a wiz or sorc casting it just once a day can piss most DM"s off (seriously, if you don't know what it does, loook it up). I can't imagine a DM being content to allow every battlefield of every session to transform into a quagmire of tentacles. Some designers really deserve to have their peepee smacked for this one.

The only really bad thing about this is, that you can throw them around left and right all day long, which really can be kinda annoying. The invocation itself is not bad, as it requires a much higher level than the spell (and the damage is really next to neglectable as a side effect).



Bye
Thanee