"You're a half elf? Really?" From the P.A. Podcasts

[Voadam]

Aragorn or Boromir wasn't human?

How old was Aragorn again?

 

[Kwalish Kid]

How old was Aragorn again?

Indeed. In a D&D translation of Tolkein, one could quite plausibly have the Dunedain as a population of half-elves like those in Eberron.

 

[MrMyth]

Because at least it's not an assumption of the standard.

But, ignoring that one example for a second

Why? Why should we ignore that example?

The point is, Elrond being a half-elf is a fundamental element of his character, and makes him something essentially unique in Middle-earth. It also is almost entirely irrelevant to the story going on around him - which is why so many read the books and never even realize his background. They see him as a leader of the elves, because that is actually what matters in the story. They see him as the father of Arwen. As a member of the White Council.

Now, if it is fine for race to take a back-seat in a story, it shouldn't only be more-so for a roleplaying game, where the shared narrative story is motivated not to entertain an audience, but to entertain and be enjoyed by the players.

You say your problem is with 'having no flavor at all'. But we're talking about Tycho, who is all about the roleplaying. His character has plenty of flavor - it just happens to be that the half-elf element isn't the part of the flavor he is most concerned about.

We already know that he didn't choose half-elf for powergaming reasons - it was a pregenerated character. Do you really feel that him focusing on his class as a defining element rather than his race makes him a 'bad roleplayer'? Do you honestly believe that someone is a worse gamer because they don't make a big deal about their race?

 

[garyh]

What Mr. Myth, Kwalish Kid, Voadam, and malraux said.

Plus, I just don't assume characters in a D&D/LotR-ish fantasy world are human. Why would I? It's known the world is full of strange things.

I really don't see why it's so important to play up the elf part of the half-elf. I don't have a problem if someone plays a half-elf as an elf with a beard, a human with pointy ears, a drama-filled Tanis clone, a prominent member of House Lyrander, or whatever. And if the fact that their half-elf is a cleric of Ioun is the most important part of the character, and that's in the forefront of how they portray them, it's still perfectly good roleplaying.

 

[Brian Gibbons]

Can you name a single movie or novel that you've seen where the species of a protagonist came as a surprise? Where you learned that X was something and you went, "Buh? What? Since when?

Not precisely the same, but the first thing that came to mind was Heinlein, who would occasionally have protagonists whose skin color was never mentioned and who most readers just assumed were white, but were in fact of another race. (The main character in Starship Troopers was Filipino, for example, and the main character of Tunnel in the Sky was African-American. Neither's race was ever mentioned and it had no real effect on the story; you'd have to be paying attention to subtle clues to pick up on it.)

 

[MarkB]

Because at least it's not an assumption of the standard.

But, ignoring that one example for a second, did you at any point in the LOTR think that:

Frodo, Sam, Pippin or Merry were not hobbits?
Legolas wasn't an elf?
Gimli wasn't a dwarf?
Aragorn or Boromir wasn't human?

For what it's worth, I thought Merry was female throughout my entire first read-through of the trilogy.

 

[Hussar]

/snip
edit: oh and harrison ford's character in blade runner.

He's human. Which is exactly what he's been made out to be throughout the movie.

And, on the Tolkien examples, let's be honest here, Tolkien's strengths are not in his characterizations.

You say your problem is with 'having no flavor at all'. But we're talking about Tycho, who is all about the roleplaying. His character has plenty of flavor - it just happens to be that the half-elf element isn't the part of the flavor he is most concerned about.

Yes, the character does have lots of flavor. And, to be honest, I'd rather not get too caught up in the specific example, since it was an example, not the entirety of my point. My point being, I do not think that it is too much to ask a player to spend thirty seconds, as has been shown in this thread alone, establishing a basic element of the character for the other players.

Again, it's not about chest beating or constantly bringing it up. It's about passing along pretty elementary information in such a way that the rest of the party knows what's what. No one has turned to Binwin's player and said, "Dude, you're a dwarf? Really?" Wil Wheaton has the great line of "Don't call me an elf. Elves are our country cousins." Perfect. That's ALL it takes.

One line.

Wow, I'm such a bastard for asking for so much effort from my players. I guess expecting a single line of role play is just too much for some people.

 

[Dire Bare]

Hussar, you're just going to have to accept that you know better than us and we're all fools who don't understand what roleplaying is all about. The lone voice in the wilderness must be correct.

 

[Jack99]

He's human. Which is exactly what he's been made out to be throughout the movie.

Not according to Mr. Ridley Scott. You know, the guy who directed the movie...

The film’s theme of dehumanization has also been sharpened. What has been a matter of speculation and debate is now a certainty: Deckard, the replicant-hunting cop, is himself a replicant. Mr. Scott confirmed this: “Yes, he’s a replicant. He was always a replicant.”

LINK TO NY TIMES ARTICLE

 

[Hussar]

Look, is it really that difficult?

We know that Omin is a priest of Avandra (sp). How do we know this? Because he brings it up fairly often. He prays to his goddess. Fantastic role play. Really brings the character to life.

But, in this area, he fell down. He didn't convey a fairly important element of his character to the other players. IME, this is pretty common with elf players and it bugs the heck out of me.

I'm asking players to spend a couple of seconds every once in a while establishing character elements during the game. I still don't understand why elf players consistently fail to do this, but, hey, whatever floats your boat.

Jack99 - Author intention is meaningless. It's always nice when you can go back, rewrite the story, and change things. Dekker is only a Replicant in one version of the story. He certainly isn't in the Phillip K Dick story. Scott may like rewriting history, but, meh, Lucasing a story so it follows your own point of view is weaksauce at best.