D&D (2024) You're not planning on getting 2024 D&D? Why is that?

[Daztur]

Actual conceptual changes can also backfire as it did with 4e.

Yeah, I think that from a business perspective a conservative edition is clearly the right move for 5e. If I were at the helm of WotC and trying to maximize profits and forced to make a new edition my version of 5.5e would be even more conservative than the one we're getting (which would be completely different game from a hypothetical 5.5e that would be designed with making me a happy DM as it's only goal). 5e players are broadly happy with 5e and there isn't a big group of non-5e players would could be easily brought on board by ANY conceivable version of 5.5e.

How conservative 5.5e is is broadly fine. The bigger problem is that the changes we have seem to be a combination of:

1. Perfectly sensible balance patch stuff.

2. Power creep stuff put in to entice players with the shiny.

3. Random naughty word that stuck to the wall after all kinds of stuff had been thrown there during the playtest. Real mixed bag.

4. Stuff that makes 5.5e a slightly worse compromise between various D&D playstyles than 5e.

 

[vagabundo]

I've been playing a 2024 playtest fighter (battle master) in my weekly game for months now, and updated it recently as best as I could from what I know about the final form of the 2024 fighter.

I have to say, between the weapon properties, combat maneuver, and new uses for Second Wind? It is more complicated than I care for, like it's moved a step or two closer to a 4E fighter or a Pathfinder fighter. I'm not saying those fighters are bad things, but I have ADHD and I do not need a lot of options every turn. And I feel like a lot of what is accomplished by weapon properties and maneuvers could be accomplished with something like the superiority dice (why aren't they just called "manuever dice" or "battle master dice"?), where there's just a list of things you can do with 1 or more dice (add damage, force a save, give advantage to your next attack, to someone else's attack, etc.) without having a list of maneuvers or a list of weapon properties.

Of course, at the same time I kind of want a system where certain weapons are better vs certain kinds of armor, so maybe I just don't know what I want!

Anyway, this kind of experience is making it less likely that I will want to invest in the 2024 D&D stuff.

Can you not go back to the 5.14 fighter in that case? You might need a little house rule boost from the DM to make up for the slight power escalation from 5.24, but thats game/group dependent I'd imagine.

But your post has the opposite effect on me. Making me think how to juice more 4e fighter into it.

 

[Aldarc]

I really don't see D&D 2024 as moving in the direction of 4e D&D. IMHO, that idea is pretty absurd. If it is moving that direction it's but an insignificant blip in that direction. I suppose that I never should underestimate people to scaremonger 4e-sized mountains out of such minor molehills. Unsurprisingly, it's mostly being done by people who disliked 4e.

However, in what ways is D&D 2024 becoming more like 4e D&D for those people who actually liked 4e D&D? If D&D 2024 was more like 4e in those ways, I and other 4e fans would probably be far more interested in D&D 2024. But as it stands, I don't really see 4e fans terribly interested in or excited about D&D 2024.

So that right there should tell you how much D&D 2024 is moving in the direction of 4e. Not very much at all. It's such overblown slippery slope nonsense.

 

[Daztur]

I really don't see D&D 2024 as moving in the direction of 4e D&D. IMHO, that idea is pretty absurd. If it is moving that direction it's but an insignificant blip in that direction.

It's moving in a general 4e direction but very slowly. Personally it doesn't have to be a very big change of direction for me to not want to play 5.5e since I'm not going to put in the effort of keeping track of a whole slew of changes if it was just treading water, let along moving (very slowly) in the wrong direction (for me).

Unsurprisingly, it's mostly being done by people who disliked 4e.

Guilty as charged.

However, in what ways is D&D 2024 becoming more like 4e D&D for those people who actually liked 4e D&D? If D&D 2024 was more like 4e in those ways, I and other 4e fans would probably be far more interested in D&D 2024. But as it stands, I don't really see 4e fans terribly interested in or excited about D&D 2024.

Well it's putting in some 4e-isms that tend to piss off people who hated 4e...while not putting in a lot of the 4e-isms that people who liked 4e liked. I mean, could we at least have healing surges back? Those were freaking genius and by far the best thing mechanically about 4e.

 

[Upper_Krust]

The tone of the artwork is putting me off getting the PHB (even if the quality is a vast improvement).

Myriad other issues I was willing to look past (like the OGL business - because the designers themselves were not responsible for those).

I think Weapon Mastery is a great idea, but the general Power Creep and other elements may undermine one of 5E's key strengths which was its simplicity and approach-ability.

Almost certainly going to get the Monster Manual though. But will wait and see what the DMG has to offer and whether it continues the same unfortunate tone set by the PHB.

 

[Thomas Shey]

I'm assuming here you're not looking for people who are not fans of D&D-sphere games in general?

 

[mamba]

I really don't see D&D 2024 as moving in the direction of 4e D&D. IMHO, that idea is pretty absurd.

I certainly see the monster stat blocks moving to a more sterile, technical language and gamist skills over more ‘realistic’ skills, like the dragon having a genric Rend to save a little space over separate Claw and Bite attacks, plus the pretty unexplained Miasma Cloud or whatever it is called.

I also see a trend towards rules over rulings and more fiddly bits.

If it is moving that direction it's but an insignificant blip in that direction.

insignificant is in the eye of the beholder

Unsurprisingly, it's mostly being done by people who disliked 4e.

I have no opinion on 4e, I sat that one out (returned to the hobby after 5e had been out for years after leaving before 3e)

However, in what ways is D&D 2024 becoming more like 4e D&D for those people who actually liked 4e D&D?

probably not at all, I grant you that one

So that right there should tell you how much D&D 2024 is moving in the direction of 4e. Not very much at all. It's such overblown slippery slope nonsense.

I am not seeing it as a slippery slope, I am not expecting them to move full on into 4e territory, I still do not like the current direction however

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

So that right there should tell you how much D&D 2024 is moving in the direction of 4e. Not very much at all. It's such overblown slippery slope nonsense.

One thing I've noticed in 2024 is the action economy being filled by most characters: in 2014 (without feat, at least), you did not have much Bonus or Reaction actions. 2024, much like 4e (after a few years into the edition), have much more options to use all those Action/Minor Action/Reaction in any given turn.

Not a bad thing per se, but I does remind me of 4e.

 

[SteveC]

However, in what ways is D&D 2024 becoming more like 4e D&D for those people who actually liked 4e D&D? If D&D 2024 was more like 4e in those ways, I and other 4e fans would probably be far more interested in D&D 2024. But as it stands, I don't really see 4e fans terribly interested in or excited about D&D 2024.

Just to reply to this as someone who loved 4E. 5E and 5.5E is not remotely similar to 4E. Whenever I hear that is is more like it I think "great, so I'm going to like this?" And then no, it's not. I think for some people, design that makes 5E seem more like a game equates with 4E. And that is typically something they don't like.

I don't know where the comparison really comes from, but I suspect it's due to options for fighters letting them do more based on weapon masteries. In the games I'm playing, I can see this as an issue since one of the players wants to just hit things with their character. But that doesn't make it 4E-esque.

Combat in 4E was a tactical minigame that everyone got to do stuff in, even the martials. A fighter had just as many tactical options as a wizard and could affect the game's flow just as much. They were just as important. I played a lot of 4E and I never ended up playing a wizard because other characters were just as interesting to me.

5E combat is not that. I suspect the weapon mastery will open up more interesting options to martial characters (I mean, how could it not?), but it doesn't change the fact that even if a fighter is toppling over an opponent, a wizard is still casting Hypnotic Pattern and there's something fundamentally different between those two characters.

 

[mamba]

Just to reply to this as someone who loved 4E. 5E and 5.5E is not remotely similar to 4E.

agreed

Whenever I hear that is is more like it I think "great, so I'm going to like this?" And then no, it's not.

more like it is not the same as almost like it

Combat in 4E was a tactical minigame that everyone got to do stuff in, even the martials

5E combat is not that. I suspect the weapon mastery will open up more interesting options to martial characters (I mean, how could it not?)

sounds like more like 4e then, even if it is not enough for your liking

I see this is more of a high level shift in tone than in class design. The game is becoming more gamist to me