D&D 5E At my table: Hexblade removed, Pact of the Blade enhanced

[Xeviat]

Eh, I'd rather play a Hex Tome lock than this, or just multiclass rogue/feytomelock.

I don't think a melee warlock needs medium armor all that much. I'd rather fix the damage scaling by allowing Eldritch Blast to be used as a melee weapon attack by BLade-locks, benefitting from all EB Invocations that are applicable, with flavor as "you summon a blade, and you can use it to cast Eldritch Blast as a melee attack. When you do, the spell counts as a melee weapon attack and a melee spell attack. When you gain extra blasts, you choose how to use each blast individually.

Bam. The Bladelock no longer needs a bunch of "make the math work" invocation taxes, and you can do more interesting things with Blade Pact Invocations.

If you want medium armor on your melee lock, let that be an invocation.

This is what I've done in my games. I even bump up the damage to 2d6 when used in melee as an incentive. Familiar vs extra controls vs beefier melee attack sounds like a fair trade.

I'd even consider rebalancing Eldritch Blade as a weapon control a la greenflame blade or booming blade.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

This is what I've done in my games. I even bump up the damage to 2d6 when used in melee as an incentive. Familiar vs extra controls vs beefier melee attack sounds like a fair trade.

I'd even consider rebalancing Eldritch Blade as a weapon control a la greenflame blade or booming blade.

I prefer to just let them use EB as a melee weapon attack, creating a weapon of their choosing, but with the damage replaced by the spell’s damage. It’s just as powerful as giving the spell 2d6 damage, but gives them access to normal melee combat stuff, like spells, fighting styles (if they MC), dual wielding, etc.

 

[Ancalagon]

I think hexblade is balanced *if* it's used as intended - to create a melee-focused character. He'll be ok, but honestly, won't be that powerful (Paladin is a better Gish, sorry). If on the other hand the character goes "blade shmade" and specialized in EB, then yeah it's too good.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I think hexblade is balanced *if* it's used as intended - to create a melee-focused character. He'll be ok, but honestly, won't be that powerful (Paladin is a better Gish, sorry). If on the other hand the character goes "blade shmade" and specialized in EB, then yeah it's too good.

All it does is make you an entirely blaster focused Warlock, rather than having the tricks of the other patrons.

For any campaign that isn’t hyper focused on combat, I’d much rather have Fey or GOO. Hexblade gets next to nothing for anything other than combat. And even an EB focused Hexblade isnt going to outshine a fighter or rogue or Paladin focused on dealing damage. It’ll keep up, sometime pull ahead, but it will still be a race.

 

[Ancalagon]

All it does is make you an entirely blaster focused Warlock, rather than having the tricks of the other patrons.

For any campaign that isn’t hyper focused on combat, I’d much rather have Fey or GOO. Hexblade gets next to nothing for anything other than combat. And even an EB focused Hexblade isnt going to outshine a fighter or rogue or Paladin focused on dealing damage. It’ll keep up, sometime pull ahead, but it will still be a race.

A hexblade won't be as good in the other pillars, but she can still contribute - high charisma score, good skillset and not *all* the spells/evocation taken have to be combat focused. I would say that their toolkit is better than a fighter's.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I have also found big issues with the Hexblade.

I like the basic idea of it - allowing you to play Elric-like characters who are weaklings transformed into deadly warriors through their relation to a demon sword - but the execution is poor for two reasons:

1) The fluff of the Patreon is awful. The Shadowfell and Raven Queen is an underdeveloped idea. It lacks the archetypal menace of the the other options, especially The Fiend, and it's a soft option in a roleplaying challenge sense without the scope of a Faustian-style deal. Also, if you want to make an accurate reflection of Elric, then you should know that he was in a pact with a Chaos Lord (essentially a demon) who created a pathway towards ownership of the evil sword. Elric never made a pact with the sword itself, it just became an addictive sustenance for him.

2) Mechanically, there is no longer any incentive to play anything else other than a Hexblade now. And in it's own part, there is no incentive to play anything other than a Pact of the Sword with it. It's actually ended up narrowing the Class design, rather than broadening it.

For me, I would make Proficiency with Medium Armour and Shields a fundamental part of Pact of the Blade. I would have all the other subclass features become Invocations available to all. I'd remove the Hexblade from my game.

 

[Charlaquin]

I’d ban Hexblades and fix the Blade Pact Boon with a simple Invocation:

Eldritch Blade
Prerequisites: Eldritch Blast Cantrip, Pact of the Blade
When you cast Eldritch Blast, if you are holding your pact weapon, you can make a melee spell attack against a creature within 5 feet of you instead of a ranged spell attack. If you do, roll your pact weapon’s damage die. On a hit, the target takes force damage equal to the result instead of 1d10 force damage. If you create multiple beams when you cast Eldritch Blast, you can choose for each beam whether you want to make a ranged spell attack or a melee spell attack.

There. Bladelocks no longer have to choose between using their pact weapon or benefiting from Eldritch Blast and its enhancement Invocations, and they get full EB attack scaling so they get just as much benefit out of Hex. And since it’s a melee spell attack instead of a melee weapon attack, they don’t have to split between Charisma and Strength or Dex, but it also doesn’t benefit from spells and abilities that proc on melee weapon attacks, so its less abusable with multiclassing. It also keeps it from stacking with Thirsting Blade and Lifedrinker, so if you want to go that route you still can and it won’t break anything.

 

[Ancalagon]

I have also found big issues with the Hexblade.

I like the basic idea of it - allowing you to play Elric-like characters who are weaklings transformed into deadly warriors through their relation to a demon sword

Absolutely - or a devil mace, the spear of a law before all being etc etc... lots of potential.

1) The fluff of the Patreon is awful. The Shadowfell and Raven Queen is an underdeveloped idea. It lacks the archetypal menace of the the other options, especially The Fiend, and it's a soft option in a roleplaying challenge sense without the scope of a Faustian-style deal. Also, if you want to make an accurate reflection of Elric, then you should know that he was in a pact with a Chaos Lord (essentially a demon) who created a pathway towards ownership of the evil sword. Elric never made a pact with the sword itself, it just became an addictive sustenance for him.

I agree that it's... not great, but I wonder if it's not vague and weak like that on purpose, so that the GM and/or player feel free to come up with something better?

2) Mechanically, there is no longer any incentive to play anything else other than a Hexblade now. And in it's own part, there is no incentive to play anything other than a Pact of the Sword with it. It's actually ended up narrowing the Class design, rather than broadening it.

I think that as a melee gish, yes hexblade is better than the other pacts, but they were *weak*. Now it's a viable character. But it's essential that hexblade characters *have* to stick to that role, otherwise you are correct. Perhaps by allowing hexblade to use EB but forbidding agonizing blast? It really depends on the player - some will be happier sticking to the stylistic theme, but others - powergamers - will have to be told no, you can't be an EB spamming hexblade that never fights in melee.

So I think the hexblade broadens the class design by making pact of the blade viable, but that at the same time there needs to be restrictions or else, as you say, it will narrow the design. And I do agree with your overall conclusion - warlock as a whole could be done better.

 

[TrippyHippy]

I think we have some agreements in there, and it wouldn't be a problem for me to try and boost the Class as a whole. The weakness of the Warlock class is that it's benefits are frequently dependent on DM fiat. How often will the party be able to get short rests as opposed to long rests, for example, or how many ritual spells will a Warlock find on his adventures in order to put into the Book of Shadows, etc.

For me, the Hexblade essentially addresses some points but not others and is unsatisfactory because of the fluff. If I were to include another Patreon type, it would have been The Undead, like a Lich or a Vampire. That has great roleplaying potential. The Hexblade is contriving a source just to justify a mechanical aspect of the class. It has no flavour.

Looking over the Hexblade features again, I'd say that:

- Hexblade's Curse is basically a souped-up version of the Fiend's Dark One's Blessing. It should, therefore, replace it for the Fiend's Warlocks (or at least combine with it - with the extra stuff being recovered after a short rest).

- Hex Warrior has the aspect of Weapon and Armour (and Shields) proficiency and the Charisma modifier to attack. I think that the proficiencies should just automatically be part of the Pact of the Blade (at level 3), while the Charisma modifier to weapons just be included in the Invocations (maybe just combining with Agonising Blast, perhaps).

- Accursed Specter, Armour of Hexes and Master of Hexes could just be made into level restricted Invocations also.

The difficulty of the Hexblade Expanded spell list is the trickiest thing to manage, although some of them could just be added to main Warlock lists, possibly.

To boost the Warlock Class as a whole, I would:

- Combine some of the features to make them more potent. So, for example, the Pact of the Tome automatically includes Book of Ancient Secrets, Pact of the Chain automatically has Voice of the Chain Master and Pact of the Blade includes proficiency with Medium Armour, Shields and all Melee Weapons. This would free up some much needed slots for other Invocations.

- Expand the options of the Class, with a few more spells, more Invocations and even a few more options for special forms of Familiar.

- Regulate some of the DM fiat aspects into the Class design. So, for example, the number of Rituals a Warlock can have is listed per level (as happens with a Wizards and their spell books) rather than just leave it up to the DM to provide opportunities to locate or steal Ritual spells in play.

 

[Charlaquin]

For me, the Hexblade essentially addresses some points but not others and is unsatisfactory because of the fluff. If I were to include another Patreon type, it would have been The Undead, like a Lich or a Vampire. That has great roleplaying potential.

That one already exists in SCAG, it's called The Undying.