D&D (2024) Brawler is out. What subclass should replace it?

[Parmandur]

They could fixed the Arcane Archer, they have to know by now what went wrong with it.

They could, but they didn't put anything out for a test in the latest UA, which has big "we are wrapping up the PHB now" energy. So whatever they doing for Fighter isn't being publicly playtestee. Which means Rune Knight or Psi Warrior.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

They could fixed the Arcane Archer, they have to know by now what went wrong with it.

Honestly that would be a quick fix too. Just a) make the arcane shots work with all ranged weapons, b) give them prof mod per short rest, and make the higher level feature recover a shot each time you roll initiative and boom. Class fixed.

Some shots might need minor adjustmentz and I'd love a larger redo that just makes ever shot do minor damage + a status effect or Major damage + a minor status effect but over all the class is largely fine with minimal tweaks.

 

[Pauln6]

The problem with this approach is: a) It shoehorn in an entirely different subclasses's core mechanic in into b) what is basically a ribbon feature. It would also be too much at level 3 if my other proposed 3rd level feature was implemented and getting it at 7th level would both push back Inspiring Surge (the real actual reason to take this class in the first place) back up to 10th level (too high for most tables to even see play) and it would also grant the subclass no out of combat stuff. Royal Envoy is actually great for granting a minor out of combat boon.

Additionally, one could just take what you suggested using the Maneauver feat.

I think I don't want the level 7 fighter ability to just be a narrow ribbon ability that will rarely be of use to a fighter. Fighters desperately need more versatility. Admittedly, an ability usable only twice per short rest is perhaps a bit limiting, but it has to be limited to avoid, as you say, stealing another subclass's core mechanic but there's way more fun to be had with +1d6 on intimidation than expertise in persuasion. I rather enjoyed the early subclass playtests that had subclasses with other ways to spend superiority dice and no warlord class will feel satisfying without reasonable access to some warlord-style battlemaster manoeuvres. I'd even be happy for the subclass to get Commanding Presence plus one other manoeuvre from Commander's Strike, Rally, or Tactical Assessment.

 

[ChameleonX]

I voted for the PDK, because it so desperately needs a complete redesign.

Realistically, however, I think Arcane Archer or Psi Knight are going in, since the former pretty much just needs more uses of Arcane Shot, and the latter is pretty much fine as is.

Or, just as likely, they'll just axe the fourth subclass entirely and just have three for the fighter.

 

[ChameleonX]

For my table, I use the following version of the Banneret/PDK:

Rallying Cry:
At 3rd level, as a bonus action, you can choose a number of creatures within 60 feet of you up to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). Each one regains hit points equal to your 1d10 + your Charisma modifier, provided that the creature can see or hear you. You can use this ability a number of times equal to your proficiency modifier. You regain these uses after you finish a long rest, though you can also regain a use by expending a use of your Second Wind.

Royal Envoy:
At 3rd level, you gain proficiency in the Persuasion skill. If you are already proficient in it, you gain proficiency in one of the following skills of your choice: Animal Handling, Insight, Intimidation, or Performance. Your proficiency bonus is doubled for any ability check you make that uses Persuasion. You receive this benefit regardless of the skill proficiency you gain from this feature.

Inspiring Surge:
Starting at 7th level, when you use your Action Surge feature, you can choose one creature within 60 feet of you that is allied with you. That creature can make one melee or ranged weapon attack or cast a cantrip, provided that it can see or hear you. That creature gains a bonus on the attack rolls and to damage equal to your Charisma modifier.

Bulwark:
Beginning at 10th level, when you decide to use Indomitable to reroll a saving throw and you aren't incapacitated, you can choose one ally within 60 feet of you that also failed its saving throw against the same effect. If that creature can see or hear you, it can reroll its saving throw and must use the new roll.

Leadership:
Beginning at 15th level, as an action, your mere presence can inspires nearby creatures of your choice. Whenever a creature within 30 feet of you makes an attack roll or a saving throw, it can roll a d4 and add the number rolled to the attack roll or saving throw. This effect lasts up to 1 minute, and ends if you are incapacitated. Once you use this ability you must finish a short or long rest in order to use it again.

Every Ready:
Beginning at 18th level, you regain one use of Rallying Cry whenever you roll initiative. Additionally, you can select two creatures when you use your Inspiring Surge, rather than one.

The idea behind the changes is to put it a bit more in line with the samurai for it's 3rd level features, given that Indomitable is likely to change in the new version of the fighter, I'll likely tweak Bulwark a bit once it goes live.

Personally I voted for Cavalier, but I actually would prefer to see an updated version of the PDK as the 4th option for the new PHB.

This is pretty much exactly what I would want for the PDK. The only change I would make is to Bulwark:

Bulwark (10th level)
When a creature you can see within 60ft of you fails a saving throw, you can expend a use of your Indomitable feature as a reaction to add a bonus to that creature's saving throw, possibly causing the roll to succeed. The bonus equals your Fighter level.

If the saving throw still fails, you don't expend your use of Indomitable.

 

[Horwath]

Honestly that would be a quick fix too. Just a) make the arcane shots work with all ranged weapons, b) give them prof mod per short rest, and make the higher level feature recover a shot each time you roll initiative and boom. Class fixed.

This idea of: recharge when you roll initiative should die in hell.
What is roll for initiative? Slap your party member for 1 damage with a sucker punch? Maybe? depending on attack roll? Bravo! the party got it's recharge...

just make short rests short again.

Some shots might need minor adjustmentz and I'd love a larger redo that just makes ever shot do minor damage + a status effect or Major damage + a minor status effect but over all the class is largely fine with minimal tweaks.

shots need more damage and better scaling

then non damage and d6 damage shot at 3rd level should all do d8 damage at 3rd level
2d8 at 10th and 3d8 at 18th

2d6 shots should do 2d8 at 3rd level
3d8 at 7th
4d8 at 10th
5d8 at 14th
and 6d8 at 18th

it's still once per turn so no fear of Action burst nova with 6 or more arcane shot in 1st round.

 

[Clint_L]

Or, just as likely, they'll just axe the fourth subclass entirely and just have three for the fighter.

You know there is zero chance of that happening. Come on.

 

[bedir than]

This idea of: recharge when you roll initiative should die in hell.
What is roll for initiative? Slap your party member for 1 damage with a sucker punch? Maybe? depending on attack roll? Bravo! the party got it's recharge...

Why would any DM ask for initiative in this case?

 

[Horwath]

Why would any DM ask for initiative in this case?

because a hostile action was taken and all PCs need the order in which they will react to it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

and the Echo Knight isn't going into a PHB

I disagree. It’s a well liked subclass, and just needs flavor rewrites, not any mechanical changes.