D&D and the Implied Setting
Whisper72
Explorer
Interesting analysis. I think you are quite right. If you know the rules well, then obviously, one can meddle around and play any style of campaign in any world under any system. It definately helps if your preferred world lies close to the 'assumed' world.
I happen to be in the happy club who kinda likes the default assumptions for the world, which is why I like DnD (in all its variations and editions, also including C&C) a lot.
I already have some trouble making everything work to satisfaction when using 'DnD-official' stuff like Oriental Adventures, as, for my own skills, I find it too difficult to model this type of campaign well and to create an appropriate atmosphere. (I only spent several months in Hong Kong several years ago, but other then that have very little experience with far-eastern culture, which definately doesn't help)
I happen to be in the happy club who kinda likes the default assumptions for the world, which is why I like DnD (in all its variations and editions, also including C&C) a lot.
I already have some trouble making everything work to satisfaction when using 'DnD-official' stuff like Oriental Adventures, as, for my own skills, I find it too difficult to model this type of campaign well and to create an appropriate atmosphere. (I only spent several months in Hong Kong several years ago, but other then that have very little experience with far-eastern culture, which definately doesn't help)
Kae'Yoss said:The discussion is over. If you can run the Realms with uncommon magic, you can do everything
It's actually easier, in my view, to run the Realms with uncommon magic, since the societies and especially the economy do not seem to be built with the magic level of D&D in mind. By making magic uncommon (not rare) I can take more "as printed" without asking myself why the powers that be wouldn't just do this or that to deal with a problem.
Herobizkit
Adventurer
I come from the unhappy camp of your standard D&D world assumptions. For solace, I've turned to gaming supplements such as Arcana Unearthed, Iron Kingdoms, Etherscope, and d20 Modern rules (where all assumptions are out the window).
@Whisper 72: Creating an Oriental-flavoured campaign with the OA book alone is difficult, but not impossible. IMO, you have to treat your Oriental campaign world as a series of concentric circles and rely heavily on NPCs.
By concentric circles, I mean that you have to consider how the smaller part of your world affects the whole. In a Feudal age, for example, you have to consider:
- who rules each city, town, or thorp in any given province
- who rules the province
- who rules the area around the province, and how many provinces are united under one ruler
- who *that* ruler serves, if anyone (most likely the Emperor, or someone fighting against him/her)
- The Emperor's area of control
- Other territories outside the Emperor's control (Barbarians, Gaijin invaders, what have you)
If you can find yourself a 1st edition Oriental Adventures guide, it has an appendix which can help you randomly roll yearly, monthly, and daily events in any area. From those, you could extrapolate the goings-on of your campaign world, especially those which the PCs can't possiblt control or get involved in but still happen.
And finally, your Oriental world can be any way you like, 'cuz it's yours. If all your "samurai" are actually warriors infused with demonic essence and all your monks are crazy and all your shugenja try to rule the world, who's to say you're wrong?
@Whisper 72: Creating an Oriental-flavoured campaign with the OA book alone is difficult, but not impossible. IMO, you have to treat your Oriental campaign world as a series of concentric circles and rely heavily on NPCs.
By concentric circles, I mean that you have to consider how the smaller part of your world affects the whole. In a Feudal age, for example, you have to consider:
- who rules each city, town, or thorp in any given province
- who rules the province
- who rules the area around the province, and how many provinces are united under one ruler
- who *that* ruler serves, if anyone (most likely the Emperor, or someone fighting against him/her)
- The Emperor's area of control
- Other territories outside the Emperor's control (Barbarians, Gaijin invaders, what have you)
If you can find yourself a 1st edition Oriental Adventures guide, it has an appendix which can help you randomly roll yearly, monthly, and daily events in any area. From those, you could extrapolate the goings-on of your campaign world, especially those which the PCs can't possiblt control or get involved in but still happen.
And finally, your Oriental world can be any way you like, 'cuz it's yours. If all your "samurai" are actually warriors infused with demonic essence and all your monks are crazy and all your shugenja try to rule the world, who's to say you're wrong?
Kae'Yoss
First Post
Whisper72 said:
That can be a problem, and it gets more of a problem if you use Rokugan. Political intrigue, characters being beholden to their lords, saying the wrong thing at the wrong time can be suicide, Death Before Dishonour, amassing of wealth much less of an issue than usual.... If you're used to enter the dungeon, kill the damsel in distress, rescue the treasure, and steal the monster, you get hit with a (perfectly cut and finely engraved) 2x4 when you play Rokugan for the first time. Wars are fougt and one with the tongue as often as with the sword. Still, it can be fun, if you're into that sort of campaign.
Andor
First Post
That's something I've kinda wondered about, the commonality of "Back from the dead" magic. There are 2 spells that might be commonly used to bring back the dead (barring every hamlet having a 17th level cleric) reincarnation and Raise dead.
My question wrt Raise Dead is this: How common are 5000 gp diamond? What is a 5000 gp diamonds? If it's a perfect 1 ct diamond there are plenty of them. If it's a 10 ct diamond there is a large but finite supply. If it's a 50 ct diamond there might have been 20-50 in the history of the world.
If Reincarnation is your common back from the dead magic then this problem goes away but you do wind up with lots of fuzzy oddness, where the village mayor is a lemur and the blacksmith has been having issues ever since he came back as badger.
My question wrt Raise Dead is this: How common are 5000 gp diamond? What is a 5000 gp diamonds? If it's a perfect 1 ct diamond there are plenty of them. If it's a 10 ct diamond there is a large but finite supply. If it's a 50 ct diamond there might have been 20-50 in the history of the world.
If Reincarnation is your common back from the dead magic then this problem goes away but you do wind up with lots of fuzzy oddness, where the village mayor is a lemur and the blacksmith has been having issues ever since he came back as badger.
Personally, I like running in the Kingdom of Kalamar setting. I find the setting doesn't focus on magic too much, which lets you put in as much or little as you want. There aren't big magical "movers and shakers" or magic based cities/societies. If you want them, add them. Personally, I like running a "magic rare" setting. It's there, and some of the magic items are pretty potent... but you won't find many, and certainly each farmer isn't going to have a +1 Plow to be working their fields with...
Oh, and that being said... I've not had a problem with game balance. Since many of the monsters and opponents are not magically enhanced... it hasn't been a big issue. Of course, like with all things, it's up to the DM to adjust as needed. I personally go a bit more freeform with XP (I used encounter XP but also roleplaying awards) so I just make sure the pace of leveling matches the game I want.
Oh, and that being said... I've not had a problem with game balance. Since many of the monsters and opponents are not magically enhanced... it hasn't been a big issue. Of course, like with all things, it's up to the DM to adjust as needed. I personally go a bit more freeform with XP (I used encounter XP but also roleplaying awards) so I just make sure the pace of leveling matches the game I want.
None of the D&D editions has "done my setting" well either. But, I've never really had the time or interest to completely learn another gaming system, so I've always just modified the system to meet my needs. From 1e forward I've made massive tweaks to the rules so that the game fits me (rather than the other way around).
When we play in other DMs' games (there are several DMs in my gaming group--though we don't play as often as once upon a time), there are times when someone tries to do something, or makes reference to a rule that isn't currently in play, often followed with "Oh yeah, that only works in Dave's campaign." But, we smile and nod and then get back to the particular game we're in.
I like D&D for what it is. I play in some RPGA games, at GenCon, for instance--but I don't like those as much as I like home-made settings (all the other DMs I know have tweaked D&D to fit their conceptions of fantasy as well--and in different directions than I have, of course).
Back in the 2e days of Spelljammer and Planescape, three of us actually hashed out the details of a campaign-setting-neutral Crystal Shell, that used only the published, core rules. We all agreed to also tie the outer and inner planes to that world, and then have our campaign worlds serve as "alternate primes" to that one.
Dave
When we play in other DMs' games (there are several DMs in my gaming group--though we don't play as often as once upon a time), there are times when someone tries to do something, or makes reference to a rule that isn't currently in play, often followed with "Oh yeah, that only works in Dave's campaign." But, we smile and nod and then get back to the particular game we're in.
I like D&D for what it is. I play in some RPGA games, at GenCon, for instance--but I don't like those as much as I like home-made settings (all the other DMs I know have tweaked D&D to fit their conceptions of fantasy as well--and in different directions than I have, of course).
Back in the 2e days of Spelljammer and Planescape, three of us actually hashed out the details of a campaign-setting-neutral Crystal Shell, that used only the published, core rules. We all agreed to also tie the outer and inner planes to that world, and then have our campaign worlds serve as "alternate primes" to that one.
Dave
Doesn't that depend, more or less completely, on the specific group of player's specific set of expectations?fusangite said:
I agree with your statement, in theory. But it doesn't jive with what I've experienced in practice. People find ways to make a of wide variety of worlds work for D&D. Attribute that to whatever you will; gamer creativity, ignorance, pure mule stubborness.
Take a look at some of campaign worlds described in the Story Hours, created with D&D 3.x. SepII's Wyre, Destan's Valus, my own beloved CITY.
I can see how extrapolating a world out of the ruleset can be enjoyable (thought its not my thing). But you shouldn't overstate the case regarding the difficulty of "shoehorning" all manner of wildly different campaign worlds into some reasonable facsimile of the current D&D rules.
