Is it rude to offer other players unsolicited optimization advice?

[wayne62682]

In my group, "yes" seems to be correct.. I routinely get into squabbles with other players at the table because I make optimized characters and the others usually do not but are the first to complain when my "uber" character does a fair bit of damage or what-have-you. When I point out things they can do to optimize (not rudely either, mind you, just along the lines of "Prestige Class X has some cool abilities that you might like" or "You could take Kewl Feat from Latest Book") I get a small lecture on how they don't care to optimize and/or how they choose things from a roleplaying perspective and not a number-crunching one.

 

[Chiaroscuro23]

Unfortunatly, rudeness is a social function and not a game function. Cheating could be considered a game function and not a social function. In general, depending on how it was done, offering optimization suggestions is not rude, but insisting they follow them or gettign upset because their choices are not optimized would be.

Yeah, I phrased my question poorly. I guess I mean: any social interaction can be rude, if you flub the social part of it. Is the underlying game part rude? Normally? Automatically? Or only if it's handled poorly?

As others have noted surely saying "what a moron, take feat X' while rolling one's eyes is rude. But there appears to be some disagreement on whether recommending optimization strategies to newbies, or those unhappy with their PCs, is acceptable. I faced the situation recently myself, and kept my mouth shut. It got me wondering if that was reasonable or not.

 

[Drowbane]

I hope not... I do it all the time >.<

 

[Janx]

Absolutely I voted "Yes".

Making a character (especially under 3.x rules) is such a PERSONAL process. You need to anticipate (at least loosely) where you want the character to be in the next 5-10 levels, and take the feats and skills that work within those parameters. (Actually I've played with people who statt out to Level 20!!)

(Though, personally, I tend to be the opposite. I tend to generate a character concept with certain parameters and limitations, but otherwise I let the campaign determine where my character goes and what skills are useful.)

Just recently, I was rolling up a Warforged Sorcerer for the "Eberron" campaign we're starting, and was choosing first-level spells. I announced my choice ("True Strike", "Summon Monster I", and "Magic Missile"), and a long-time friend (who assuredly had the best interests for pary survivabillity in mind) stated "You need to take Sleep." I simply said "That doesn't fit my character concept." After a little bit of back-and-forth, I said "This is my spell list. Not yours. If you want to play the party mage, I'm happy to roll up something else."

And perhaps I was a bit snippy, (Sorry, Bruce!! ) but, friend or not, I HATE getting unsolicited advice on character generation or progression. If I need help, I'll ask.

Have you considered the thought that both you and your friend handled it poorly?

Assuming you're right, that making a PC is such complex process, when you made your announcement of your spelllist, your friend didn't see the plan you had, and he had an idea that he thought would make it better. He didn't voice it as a suggestion, or query into your line of thinking. Thus his way of giving advice was rude. Your response of "That doesn't fit my character concept." doesn't help matters. Remember, a moron can make a poorly optimized PC and say the same thing, so you haven't added clarity to the situation.


Had you explained your plan, or said, "yeah I'm coming at this from a different angle, so I'm looking to test my strategy in game. But thanks for checking." Might have better conveyed that you apparently knew what you were getting into, and would suffer the consequences of a poor build if it were the case.

The fact is, if you announce what your character can do (his build), you are effectively opening the floor for comment. To expect nobody will offer suggestions for improvement (or to have your idea judged) would be foolish. If you don't want comments from the peanut gallery, don't get on the stage.

Player experience has nothing to do with it. Any player can make a poor decision in build. Or fail to consider an alternative path. Reviewing your PC with your fellow players can reveal alternative choices. Whether you follow the advice or not should always be your own choice.

 

[Snotlord]

No. Its tiresome, not rude.

 

[KB9JMQ]

I voted yes but it is only because IMO it will most likely be taken rudely.
Even so it is a pretty minor rudeness violation

 

[diaglo]

Hells Yes

 

[Cedric]

Most of the people who are giving examples of why it's rude, are giving rude examples.

Consider:

Oh, you're playing a fighter with a greatclub, alterness and improved initiative? You don't wanna go that route. The greatclub kind of bites and there are a LOT better feats to take. You should go with a greataxe, power attack and cleave. You're character will be worth something then.

Verdict? Rude. You never bothered asking what their concept actually was, if they had a reason for making their character that way or anything else.

Consider:

Oh, you're playing a fighter with a greatclub, alterness and improved initiative? That's kind of interesting, I'd be curious to know more about your concept and what lead you in that direction, it sounds interesting. For myself, I really like going with a greataxe and getting into power attack and cleave as soon as I can, but that's just me.

Verdict? Fine. You're offering advice, but it's polite, conversational advice. You expressed interest in what they are doing and didn't word your advice in terms of what the other player should do...you just specified what you have had success with.

 

[Seeker95]

I voted that it is rude. However, I feel this should be a qualified answer.

Unsolicited assistance / advice is rude. It is, however, easy to get such solicitation. Just say "would you like some optimization suggestions?"

 

[wingsandsword]

I voted that it was rude, but it really does depend on a lot of things.

I'm thinking of the times that I've seen when I'm playing my character, and a more power/optimization (or more bluntly, munchkin) oriented player tells me that there is a PrC/Feat/Spell I could take that would be a more optimum choice, but I don't want it for RP reasons, and if I explain that I was aware of it and consciously chose not to take it for roleplaying reasons, I'm treated like I'm incompetent or a fool.

If somebody just mentions in passing, a bit of advice, that's routine table chatter. Lecturing other players on how to build their characters for optimum power, that's quite rude in my opinion.