Star Wars: Disney scraps the Expanded Universe

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

The only EU stuff I really enjoyed where the Thrawn novels and the X-Wing series. Especially the Thrawn series didn't quite fit to the prequels. So for me, the interesting part of the EU is already over.

I figure if Timothy Zahn will write a new novel for the "new" EU, I'll read it, otherwise... We'll see what the new movies bring.

I am fine with the Emperor never returning from his grave, and the Yuzang Vong never existing.

 

[wingsandsword]

So... New 52, you mean?

I specifically didn't use DC Comics as an example because they've had multiple complete continuity reboots, and those were after continuity became so much of a train-wreck that a complete re-start was warranted.

Honestly, to me I think this will be to Star Wars what the Spellplague was to me and Forgotten Realms.

I love FR, but at the entire Spellplague thing I went "I'm out". I haven't looked at or bought a single FR product since then. If I ever run D&D, it's set before that, and acting like it never happened if continuity goes past that point (but once I did have an epic-level adventure where a Chronomancer come back warning of a dire future where most of the Gods have died, the world is ravaged and magic is all but dead and the PC's helped Mystra avoid an elaborate trap laid by Shar. . .and since the players were casual fans at best, none realized the reference.) Much like how I felt WotC trashed a beloved setting so I felt no desire to keep up with it or buy anything more, I feel much the same about Star Wars.

In my head, in my heart, the EU is still Star Wars. I'll forever look at the new Disney Continuity as an "Alternate Universe" ala the Abramsverse of Star Trek. If I run a SW RPG, it will be in the original EU.

If, big if, I'd say they could have a breaking point with continuity to give them freedom while not screwing around with too much, I'd say the Hand of Thrawn Duology (and the comic epilogue of Star Wars: Union with the wedding of Luke and Mara) would be a good ending point. The EU was never quite as good after that point. I didn't care too much for the Vong, they might have been more tolerable as a minor race instead of a huge Galaxy-wide threat that spanned a 19 book series over four years. Still, the EU as a whole was good, even if it did wear a little thin over time.

 

[MarkB]

As a major, serious Star Wars fan who's enjoyed comics, novels, videogames and RPG games outside of the cinematic continuity and is currently running a Star Wars Saga Edition campaign, I can honestly say that this bothers me not at all.

I've enjoyed a lot of Star Wars EU stuff, but I never saw any of it as set in stone. It was always obvious to me that, if Lucas got around to making the sequels, he'd not let himself be constrained by the EU continuity, assuming he paid it any attention at all.

If someone else is continuing the series, I'm certainly not going to hold them to a higher standard. And in the end, does it matter if they take the series in a completely different direction? Those EU stories won't cease to exist or cease to have meaning just because the movies are telling a different story.

 

[Alzrius]

Honestly, to me I think this will be to Star Wars what the Spellplague was to me and Forgotten Realms.

I'm with you on this. This move by Disney is the very definition of flipping the fans off - yes it was primarily motivated by money and convenience, but what gets me is that neither of those things is a very good excuse. They could still have made new movies and found new creative spaces while working within the existing EU material - hell, when I read a while back that Disney was making Star Wars have a dedicated story department, and that they were trying to make everything (or at least almost everything; not things like Star Wars Infinities) have the same level of canon, I figured that it was to avoid the exact sort of canon-dump that they're doing now.

My hope at this point is that this announcement is just a pro forma thing, and that the new movies won't actually cause any more problems with the EU than, say, the Thrawn trilogy does now held up against the stuff (I'm reading the annotated Heir to the Empire right now, and it's great to see the author's insights and comparisons to what came later).

 

[sabrinathecat]

That's over 150 gaming books; I know I have a copy of each title. There is a lot of crap in that d6 Star Wars collection with a few gems here and there.

Yes, but they established a consistent universe. One that worked, and even made sense of some of the more nonsensical parts of the OT.

 

[ShinHakkaider]

The more that I think about it the more that I think ditching the EU stuff is a GREAT idea.

Granted there are things about the EU that I think would work great in the films
but as I said before alot of the EU stuff is of questionable quality.
Great fuel for RPG's where things can be reworked or tweaked. But as far as the
new movies go? I dont want the writers to be constrained by the EU stuff.

I dont want to see the Solo kids and the fate that befalls them. I kinda think Mara Jade
should be left out. I dont want dead Chewbacca.
And I REALLY, REALLY HATE the g*dd*mn Yuuhzan Vong.

I dont want any of that stuff as actual film canon.

Let the new films stand or fall on their own merits not on the
carcass of the mixed bag that is the EU.

X-Wing Rogue Squadron needs to be a TV Series on HBO or SHOWTIME though.
That would be AWESOME.

 

[Umbran]

This move by Disney is the very definition of flipping the fans off - yes it was primarily motivated by money and convenience, but what gets me is that neither of those things is a very good excuse.

Not a good excuse? Right. (begin sarcasm) Because none of the EU was produced for *money*! Goodness no! It is all for the deathless ART!!!1! Clearly, Lucasfilm could be bought for $4 billion because they'd never done something so horrible as make money off Star Wars! (end sarcasm) Yeah, they want to make money off it, just like everyone else who has worked on Star Wars.

Really? Yes, it is for convenience - they want to have space to write new stories without having to worry about conflicting with stuff from a RPG written a quarter century ago. Much as you may be attached to that canon, it isn't actually an unreasonable desire, when the originator of that canon also felt the need to create elaborate levels to make sure it was clear that canon outside the movies not be taken too seriously.

Guess what - Star Wars, Star Trek, and comic books are modern mythology. The stories get retold and changed over time. Any expectations that they will be sacrosanct for prolonged periods come from failing to recognize the role the stories now fill.

 

[delericho]

I didn't care too much for the Vong, they might have been more tolerable as a minor race instead of a huge Galaxy-wide threat that spanned a 19 book series over four years.

The thing is that they had to do something different - they'd done "superweapon of the week" to death by that point, and had tried "evil Force user" in several different variations as well.

The Vong were probably the wrong solution to the problem, but at least they were a solution to the problem.

(Besides, wasn't one of the purposes of "Vision of the Future", the second volume in that "Hand of Thrawn" duology precisely to foreshadow "The New Jedi Order"?)

 

[Alzrius]

Not a good excuse? Right. (begin sarcasm) Because none of the EU was produced for *money*! Goodness no! It is all for the deathless ART!!!1! Clearly, Lucasfilm could be bought for $4 billion because they'd never done something so horrible as make money off Star Wars! (end sarcasm) Yeah, they want to make money off it, just like everyone else who has worked on Star Wars.

You managed to miss my point completely. Money isn't a good excuse in this case because the existing EU isn't a barrier to them making money. It's not standing in their way of making new stories, so the idea that they somehow need to scrap it to be able to do what they're going to do is a false one.

Oh, and please allow me to congratulate you on setting a respectful tone in your posting that, as a moderator, sets an example for everyone else on EN World. Keep the community classy, Umbran. (end sarcasm)

Really? Yes, it is for convenience - they want to have space to write new stories without having to worry about conflicting with stuff from a RPG written a quarter century ago. Much as you may be attached to that canon, it isn't actually an unreasonable desire, when the originator of that canon also felt the need to create elaborate levels to make sure it was clear that canon outside the movies not be taken too seriously.

They have all the space they need; regardless of when the old material was written, it's easily incorporated and written around in a manner that can satisfy both the existing material and make new stories. Anyone who thinks that's impossible is suffering a critical failure of imagination. Likewise, I'm not sure what you think that George Lucas and the old "levels of canon" have to do with anything, since Disney made it clear prior to this that those old levels weren't being used anymore, without necessarily discarding any pre-existing material.

Guess what - Star Wars, Star Trek, and comic books are modern mythology. The stories get retold and changed over time. Any expectations that they will be sacrosanct for prolonged periods come from failing to recognize the role the stories now fill.

Guess what - people don't like it when you scrap large parts of their mythology. That's not an organic "retold and changed over time," that's saying that things that were part of those stories yesterday aren't today. Saying that fans should just expect large swaths of the material to be invalidated willy-nilly is a critical failure to respect the core of your existing audience.

 

[MarkB]

If the BBC announced that starting with the new Dr. Who series, all the classic old pre-2005 episodes were no longer canonical and would be ignored.

When the new 2005 series began, it was far from clear that they weren't doing exactly that. It was some time before it became fully established that the new series intended to respect the old series continuity. That didn't stop it from being a huge success almost from the outset.

And the new series did override and ignore the continuities built up in hundreds of Virgin New Adventures 7th-Doctor books, hundreds more BBC-published 8th Doctor books, Doctor Who Magazine comic stories, and Big Finish audiobooks.

The fandom didn't collapse. None of that material is lost. The fans (generally) accepted that each of these were alternate fictional settings within the umbrella of Doctor Who.

Star Wars movie continuity has already overwritten EU material in the prequels. Star Wars TV continuity has overwritten EU material in the Clone Wars animated series (heck, the Clone Wars CGI series overwrote the continuity of the Clone Wars cartoon series). Any Star Wars fans who weren't expecting the new movies to overwrite EU continuity were kidding themselves.