Temp. Ability Increases = Permanent Character Increases?

Marius · Dec 17, 2002

So if I drink a potion of intelligence right before experience is counted up and we (presumably) level, does that mean I get a bunch of skill points that I wouldn't normally get? What about a temporary con increase? It seems like those extra points would drop off after constitution returned to normal, like losing con points modifies HP downward on the fly otherwise. I know its horrible powergaming, but just wondering.

Force0 · Dec 17, 2002

Well, for the int boost, it depends on the DM most will allow it only if the "temp" increase was for the magority(sp?) of the level, as for Con, you are right, it goes down or up retro-activly so no permanent gain from it.
Take care!

Plane Sailing · Dec 17, 2002

Marius said:
So if I drink a potion of intelligence right before experience is counted up and we (presumably) level, does that mean I get a bunch of skill points that I wouldn't normally get?

No, because you haven't had the extra INT for the majority of the previous level. It is just like the headband of intellect situation.

Marius · Dec 17, 2002

Re: Re: Temp. Ability Increases = Permanent Character Increases?

Plane Sailing said:
No, because you haven't had the extra INT for the majority of the previous level. It is just like the headband of intellect situation.

Where do those rules come from, re: the headband of intellect situation? I'm not disagreeing, just wondering.

bret · Dec 17, 2002

Marius said:
So if I drink a potion of intelligence right before experience is counted up and we (presumably) level, does that mean I get a bunch of skill points that I wouldn't normally get?

I wouldn't suggest this to your GM. It is much too likely to backfire on you.

[ cue evil GM laughter ]
"OK, you've killed the evil sorcerer. That will give you just enough XP to level. Those of you under Feeblemind should remember to apply the -5 skill points, minimum of 1. I'm sorry, but you're not bright enough to wait until the effect is cured before leveling.

Remember to thank Marius for giving me the idea with his potions."
[fade out]

The skill points are supposed to represent things you've picked up during a level. The whole XP/level system is an abstraction. You don't just wake up one morning says "Gee, I feel great. It must have been that last 2 XP that put me up a level!" In my opinion, the characters should avoid taking actions based on their XP totals.

Marius · Dec 17, 2002

Well certainly. I wouldnt have a problem getting the negative if I got the positive though, to be sure. And yes, as I stated at the beginning, it is terrible metagaming/power gaming. Im just trying to understand the finer points of level advancement.

IceBear · Dec 17, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Temp. Ability Increases = Permanent Character Increases?

Marius said:
Where do those rules come from, re: the headband of intellect situation? I'm not disagreeing, just wondering.

I believe the Sage clarified this in the FAQ.

Edit: Ok, I just took a quick look and couldn't find it in the FAQ, but I'm positive that either the Sage or one of the designers commented that this is how it should work.

IceBear

Marius · Dec 17, 2002

Re: Re: Re: Re: Temp. Ability Increases = Permanent Character Increases?

IceBear said:
I believe the Sage clarified this in the FAQ.

Edit: Ok, I just took a quick look and couldn't find it in the FAQ, but I'm positive that either the Sage or one of the designers commented that this is how it should work.

IceBear

Yeah, my DM is notoriously strict on things others take for granted, so I know for sure that this would never fly, Im just trying to track down the source. Thanks for trying.

IceBear · Dec 17, 2002

Well, is your DM blinded by the rules to the point of not seeing the spirit of them?

Seriously, if you suddenly increase your Intelligence JUST before gaining a level why would that allow you to gain more skillpoints. Sure, it's fine by the letter of the rules, but the spirit of the rules suggest that over the course of your last level you were learning your new skills (I mean it's not like in an instant you can suddenly speak a new language you couldn't before) so the intelligence over that period is what matters.

As a player, I'm surprised that you're looking for a ruling AGAINST this

IceBear

Marius · Dec 17, 2002

IceBear said:
Well, is your DM blinded by the rules to the point of not seeing the spirit of them?

Seriously, if you suddenly increase your Intelligence JUST before gaining a level why would that allow you to gain more skillpoints. Sure, it's fine by the letter of the rules, but the spirit of the rules suggest that over the course of your last level you were learning your new skills (I mean it's not like in an instant you can suddenly speak a new language you couldn't before) so the intelligence over that period is what matters.

As a player, I'm surprised that you're looking for a ruling AGAINST this

IceBear

I dunno, its less black and white when dealing with magic. If I wear something that makes me "smarter" IE intelligence increasing items, then yes, that in theory could allow me to intuit a language, given the right circumstances, but no, I don't think looking at a character holistically allows this kind of powergaming to make sense.

My DM doesn't overlook the spirit, but is incredibly stingy when it comes to allowing things that most others will. She picks my levels on my multiclass character, IE, if she feels I was more of a fighter, then I get a level in fighter, etc. Also very controlling when it comes to gold, magic, etc etc. Not a problem, but I won't hope to sneak something by her. If she senses Im trying to get cute with the rules, she automatically says "No", and expects me to budge her, not the other way around.