D&D 5E Why does 5E SUCK?

Sadras · May 14, 2018

UngeheuerLich said:
Here in 5e expertise and proficiency and half proficiency do the trick that you can't raise everything to max. Sadly this system indeed ended a bit too static as you can't learn skills later.

Unless the DM incorporates the Downtime guidelines in the DMG with regards to learning additional skills.

doctorbadwolf · May 14, 2018

UngeheuerLich said:
I was under time pressure. I have edited the post for clarity... hopefully.

And to be sure:
If everybody assumed cross class limits were the baseline, and class proficiency the exception (like expertise), then it woul be 2+1 per 2 levels... not too far away from 5e. I did limit everyone to cap only a few skills at 4+ 1 per Level (which you used a lot and trained for) and everything worked perfectly from then on.

Much clearer, thank you. I see you point. I also wish 5e had more ways to increase skills and learn new skills, but I def don’t miss cross class skills and useless trap skills like Use Rope.

UngeheuerLich · May 14, 2018

Sadras said:
Unless the DM incorporates the Downtime guidelines in the DMG with regards to learning additional skills.

There is no downtime activity to learn skills... except as alternate reward which is even more optional.

Sadras · May 14, 2018

UngeheuerLich said:
There is no downtime activity to learn skills... except as alternate reward which is even more optional.

You are correct it is in the Other Reward section - my confusion existed because it specifically calls out to apply the Downtime rules. If I recall correctly it might also be included in the AL rules under the Downtime section.

Hussar · May 14, 2018

Even so, you can still learn tools as a downtime activity. Which, effectively, is the same as learning skills.

The Crimson Binome · May 15, 2018

AbdulAlhazred said:
I never got this whole '5e is simpler' thing. Its no simpler than 4e.

It's simpler on the back-end character creation mini-game. There are far fewer decisions before you can just start playing.

Also, on a turn-by-turn basis in combat, each character has fewer options to choose between. And what options they do have feature fewer variables and less nuance, so it's easier to make a decision.

Warpiglet · May 15, 2018

Saelorn said:
It's simpler on the back-end character creation mini-game. There are far fewer decisions before you can just start playing.

Also, on a turn-by-turn basis in combat, each character has fewer options to choose between. And what options they do have feature fewer variables and less nuance, so it's easier to make a decision.

I think this is correct. I admit even as long time strategy game and D&D player that at first, 5e took a while to learn due to interference learning. For me, reactions and bonus actions seemed odd when I did not have a ready list of bonus actions to consider if you will.

However, being simpler does not seem all bad to me. We had a few combats drag on when a character was kiting enemies using 5 ft steps and other things to keep an advantage for ranged attacks.

I felt it slowed things down and made combat LESS exciting despite technically more tactical choice. I understood it, I got it, but it did not add to the thrill.

We have been using minis and terrain of late and I have standardized terrain that allows for rough measurement. It is often "close enough" and moves almost as quick as theater of mind. If we had been using 3e again, I have a feeling we would be debating the inches like a true miniatures game which is just not what we are looking for.

We have miniatures and racks of games in my house just for that purpose! But of course to each their own.

In short, I like decisions but minutia in the midst of a quick skirmish has some diminishing returns in my opinion which for me was the case with some previous editions. That said, I cannot fault someone for wanting those extra bits either by way of earlier edition, optional rules or other house rules.

guachi · May 17, 2018

nicolas.carrillos said:
What I really dislike about 5e has to do with its lore rather than its rules, and is the fact that the only setting actually supported is the Forgotten Realms

I hate short rests and the ease of getting back all HP on a long rest. Those are the rules I hate the most. But now that you mention it, it's the lore and the FR focus I really hate the most. They don't really do it for me and I'v largely kept my wallet closed except for Volo's and that's because I had store credit my my FLGS and it was going out of business and I had to buy something.

NiClerigo · May 17, 2018

guachi said:
I hate short rests and the ease of getting back all HP on a long rest. Those are the rules I hate the most. But now that you mention it, it's the lore and the FR focus I really hate the most. They don't really do it for me and I'v largely kept my wallet closed except for Volo's and that's because I had store credit my my FLGS and it was going out of business and I had to buy something.

I fully agree! I hate rest healing, but de facto FR-exclusiveness is the worst aspect of 5e for me

Warpiglet · May 17, 2018

guachi said:
I hate short rests and the ease of getting back all HP on a long rest. Those are the rules I hate the most. But now that you mention it, it's the lore and the FR focus I really hate the most. They don't really do it for me and I'v largely kept my wallet closed except for Volo's and that's because I had store credit my my FLGS and it was going out of business and I had to buy something.

That is interesting. I cannot stand the Realms for the most part and it simply does not come up much for me. Admittedly, there is a lot I cannot use in Sword Coast AG, but all of the core books, Volo's, Xanathar's seem pretty well free of its taint--sorry to use such a negative term

Likewise, I used some of Yawning Portal in my own world and have not given a thought to FR.

(shrug)

The one thing I would be unlikely to buy would be a Realms campaign book. Just not useful for me.

I would agree to a point about rests. I like a more challenging and perilous situation myself but for me its a minor quibble.