D&D 5E Free +2/+1 ASI instead of racial ASI?

Ragmon · Mar 28, 2017

Hey guys. Gonna try to keep this short.

So the idea is:
Remove racial Ability Score Increase (ASI) and just give the players the choice to distribute the +2 and a +1 Ability Points freely. Yes even the humans, H-elfs any race that does not conform to the +2/+1 ASI model.

My line of thought:
By allowing the PCs to freely distribute ASI the people who want to play their class/race combination of choice stay on equal footing with the people who choose races for optimization.

Any thought on this house rule? Major balance issues and stuff?

The Crimson Binome · Mar 28, 2017

From a pure balance issue, some races are meant to have certain bonuses in order to prevent them from being too good with certain classes.

If you look at dwarves, for example, one subrace gains +2 Strength and +2 Con and their only real power is medium armor proficiency. The balancing factor is that nobody benefits from both Strength and armor proficiency, since every Strength-based character will already have armor proficiency from their class. Wizards get the medium armor proficiency that they might want, but they also get the Strength that they don't care about; Fighters get the Strength that they want, but the armor proficiency does nothing for them. If you had the option of taking both armor proficiency and +2 Int, then that would be an obvious choice for Wizards and there would never be a Fighter of that subrace.

Barolo · Mar 28, 2017

Well, the ABIs do interact with other traits each race might provide, and the results of your proposal might be a little off what you expect.

For instance, in a game utilizing the standard array, if you allow a mountain dwarf to start with +2 int/+1 con or dex, the race may rapidly become a favorite for wizards, since it provides proficiency with light and medium armor, and it might even overshadow other races who were supposed to be more iconic as wizards, or change the stereotype of wizards (mostly) not wearing armor.

Edit: Ninja'd

thethain · Mar 28, 2017

Saelorn said:
From a pure balance issue, some races are meant to have certain bonuses in order to prevent them from being too good with certain classes.

If you look at dwarves, for example, one subrace gains +2 Strength and +2 Con and their only real power is medium armor proficiency. The balancing factor is that nobody benefits from both Strength and armor proficiency, since every Strength-based character will already have armor proficiency from their class. Wizards get the medium armor proficiency that they might want, but they also get the Strength that they don't care about; Fighters get the Strength that they want, but the armor proficiency does nothing for them. If you had the option of taking both armor proficiency and +2 Int, then that would be an obvious choice for Wizards and there would never be a Fighter of that subrace.

This is pretty spot on. Abilities scores are one part of the multipart balancing act of races. (not that they are all even) for example, humans under this new setup are pretty weak. +1 all isn't amazing, but it is unique, without it, humans are literally just the worst race as they have nothing special. I mean literally nothing. Mechanically there would be no reason to ever pick a standard human as an elf or half elf or tiefling would get bonuses with no penalties.

Variant humans under this system would be even more powerful than they are currently, which is already high up on the scale of powerful options.

Aasimar would be a huge benefit, they are an extremely powerful race getting 2 resistances, darkvision, built in damage buff, and built in heal.

CydKnight · Mar 28, 2017

This proposition essentially looks like everyone is a variant human without the feats. I feel this would take away some of the meaning behind being this race or that race. It's not just about where a race doesn't have an increase but it's also about where they do have it. Half Orcs are supposed to be stronger, Dwarves hartier, elves more dexterous. It also could make some racial abilities seem more powerful if all races are on equal footing ASI-wise.

Also, not every player cares about optimization. Many do not optimize because it is not a priority for them to do so but also because it's not always necessary to be "on equal footing with the people who choose races for optimization". You can also look weaker in one area (namely combat) but be far better at controlling the battlefield or buffing party members while nerfing foes.

Ragmon · Mar 28, 2017

Saelorn said:
From a pure balance issue, some races are meant to have certain bonuses in order to prevent them from being too good with certain classes.

If you look at dwarves, for example, one subrace gains +2 Strength and +2 Con and their only real power is medium armor proficiency. SNIP .

Barolo said:
Well, the ABIs do interact with other traits each race might provide, and the results of your proposal might be a little off what you expect.

For instance, in a game utilizing the standard array, if you allow a mountain dwarf to start with +2 int/+1 con or dex, the race may rapidly become a favorite for wizards [SNIP]

Edit: Ninja'd

The thing is, that Dwarf subrace is a major anomaly in my opinion, and should be reworked by the development team.
I don't find it too be too big of an issue, now that race/class combo becomes a viable choice for players.

Mercule · Mar 28, 2017

I don't know that there are any balance issues, per se, other than some races have other abilities that may be considered at the same "point value" as an ASI.

The real reason for racial bonuses is to reinforce racial stereotypes/archetypes. I prefer to have those archetypes in place, but it's not something that would put me out too far to have removed. If you're going to remove them, though, I'd just remove them for everyone, including humans (use the variant, sans ability bonuses). If that ends up making characters that are lower powered than you like, use a higher point-buy pool.

If you're using dice, then 4d6, drop lowest should work (it did in 1E). If that's too low, try 5d6, drop 2. If that's too high, then, yeah, a +1/+2 should do the trick. I just like keeping points and dice separate.

discosoc · Mar 28, 2017

I think a better solution would be just not use Variant Human and let the normal human be the racial choice for those who want to have more control over the ABI.

Ragmon · Mar 28, 2017

thethain said:
This is pretty spot on. Abilities scores are one part of the multipart balancing act of races. (not that they are all even) for example, humans under this new setup are pretty weak. +1 all isn't amazing, but it is unique, without it, humans are literally just the worst race as they have nothing special. I mean literally nothing. Mechanically there would be no reason to ever pick a standard human as an elf or half elf or tiefling would get bonuses with no penalties.

Variant humans under this system would be even more powerful than they are currently, which is already high up on the scale of powerful options.

Aasimar would be a huge benefit, they are an extremely powerful race getting 2 resistances, darkvision, built in damage buff, and built in heal.

Humans and mountain dwarfs were poor design choices. They are extreme cases.

I think what I realized today is that, most of the races are poorly balanced in 5th edition.

Also now that I think about it, the ASI doesn't really matter if your rolling for stats, you will prolly have less or more stats then the other players.

Also, so the Aasimar gets to be a good ranger instead of a "eh its an alright" ranger, instead of of going with CHA and WIS based classes.

Ragmon · Mar 28, 2017

discosoc said:
I think a better solution would be just not use Variant Human and let the normal human be the racial choice for those who want to have more control over the ABI.

Yea but thats the point of this thread, ASI freedom so we can avoid race-class combos "cause I get the stat bonus that compliments my class". And to get the "oh I like the idea of a R/C combo and I don't waste my Racial ASI".

D&D 5E Free +2/+1 ASI instead of racial ASI?

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