Avengers: Endgame SPOILER THREAD

Jester David · May 6, 2019

Umbran said:
Look, I get the idea that you don't like how the movie ended for his character. But this is starting to get really judgemental against a whole lot of real-world life paths. Yes, in our culture there's this expectation that you have a wild youth, but then you settle down into some "acceptable" role. Something comfortable. Conventional. Get promoted to top dog, and then settle in for the long quiet of middle age and beyond.

I don't want to crap on anyone's lifestyle or choices. Or imply there's only one route to find yourself. But we've seen Thor be the king of Asgard before in the source material, and he's often done a good job. It wouldn't be out of character for him.

But Thor's decision at the end of the movie really feels like a juvenile move. It's someone opting out of life. He's still running away from his problems and friends and life.
He spent five years getting drunk and playing video games. And now he's off bumming around space Europe.

Just lobbing his responsibility to the strong female in his life so he can be an irresponsible man-child. He barely gave Valkyrie a choice.
Plus... how is she better suited to lead? She's just as much a warrior as he is (and has as much of a drinking problem).

Umbran · May 6, 2019

Jester David said:
Yeah. But then there was a SEQUEL.

I don't see what you mean. The same end to one movie works as a lead-in to new stories, or to an implied, "and he goes off and does whatever he does, that's not what this story is about." Not all stories have to end with a character in a state of knowing what is next.

Not everything needs to be tied up in a bow, dude.

I'm not saying it would be easy. But it's also not impossible.

Quentin Beck may be lying about being a hero. Or from being from another dimension. Or both. He's probably lying about something, but if they've structured it well, we probably won't guess exactly what for a while.

But the fact there *are* other dimensions/universes/timelines to be from? We established this is true in Endgame. The Ancient One paints the picture for Hulk (and us). Presumably Doctor Strange can firm that up afterwards - he already knows that there are beings from timeless other places, after all. And the fact that they borrow Infinity Stones, Mjollnir, and Cap's Shield without wonking up their own past proves it, too.

There are many places to be from in the MCU, now. Get used to it.

Jester David · May 6, 2019

Umbran said:
I don't see what you mean. The same end to one movie works as a lead-in to new stories, or to an implied, "and he goes off and does whatever he does, that's not what this story is about." Not all stories have to end with a character in a state of knowing what is next.

Not everything needs to be tied up in a bow, dude.

Then why did they wrap up every other character (with the exception of Hawkeye who is getting a TV series). Why not pass on the hammer like they did with the shield?

If Thor is never in another movie would you feel satisfied with this ending?

Umbran said:
Quentin Beck may be lying about being a hero. Or from being from another dimension. Or both. He's probably lying about something, but if they've structured it well, we probably won't guess exactly what for a while.

But the fact there *are* other dimensions/universes/timelines to be from? We established this is true in Endgame. The Ancient One paints the picture for Hulk (and us). Presumably Doctor Strange can firm that up afterwards - he already knows that there are beings from timeless other places, after all. And the fact that they borrow Infinity Stones, Mjollnir, and Cap's Shield without wonking up their own past proves it, too.

There are many places to be from in the MCU, now. Get used to it.

Yeah. But we already knew there was a multiverse from Into the Spider-Verse.
Or that the MCU has always been Earth-199999.
That’s not really new to Marvel.

MarkB · May 6, 2019

Jester David said:
If Thor is never in another movie would you feel satisfied with this ending?

They're comic-book characters, and Thor is thousands of years old. I'd far rather his story end with him still out there doing what he does than leaving him sitting on a throne.

Jester David · May 6, 2019

MarkB said:
They're comic-book characters, and Thor is thousands of years old. I'd far rather his story end with him still out there doing what he does than leaving him sitting on a throne.

Then why would we never see him doing what he does?

MarkB · May 6, 2019

Jester David said:
Then why would we never see him doing what he does?

If his story ends with him sitting on a throne, why would we never see him sitting on a throne?

Jester David · May 6, 2019

MarkB said:
If his story ends with him sitting on a throne, why would we never see him sitting on a throne?

If the story never goes to New Asgard, there’s a good reasons why he’s not involved. Especially if he gives up the hammer.

If he’s off fighting and saving lives, and there’s a big galactic wide threat, why would he stay out? If Earth is in danger, why wouldn’t be Bifrost from across the galaxy to help?

MarkB · May 6, 2019

Jester David said:
If the story never goes to New Asgard, there’s a good reasons why he’s not involved. Especially if he gives up the hammer.

If he’s off fighting and saving lives, and there’s a big galactic wide threat, why would he stay out? If Earth is in danger, why wouldn’t be Bifrost from across the galaxy to help?

If he's living in Norway and there's even an Earth-scale (heck, even just Europe-scale) threat, nevermind galactic-scale, why wouldn't he stand up off his throne and help? If anything his non-appearance in future movies is far more plausible if he's half a galaxy away.

Jester David · May 6, 2019

MarkB said:
If he's living in Norway and there's even an Earth-scale (heck, even just Europe-scale) threat, nevermind galactic-scale, why wouldn't he stand up off his throne and help? If anything his non-appearance in future movies is far more plausible if he's half a galaxy away.

Which is why I also had him giving up the hammer.

Besides... not running off to fight and staying behind to rule would be the point or his growth. Having him change from Thor 1 to now and be more than the warrior quick to rush into battle without thinking.
Other than growing a sense of humor (because the actor is a goofball) has Thor really changed and grown over the past five movies? I don’t think so. Endgame erased any growth he underwent previously, returning him right back to where he was at the end of Dark World. If not the end of Thor 1.

[video=youtube_share;u6Bq_jK0Z1Y]https://youtu.be/u6Bq_jK0Z1Y[/video]

[video=youtube_share;mzIJ4HzLiIE]https://youtu.be/mzIJ4HzLiIE[/video]

Nellisir · May 6, 2019

Blue said:
There was a five year gap. We got to see several characters how they grew during those five years. Cap leading small counseling sessions because he cares about actual people. Tony and Pepper starting a family. Nat burning herself out trying to hold her chosen family together. And Banner/Hulk resolving the issues from the end of Infinity War, finding his center and coming to peace with himself (himselves?).

While it wasn't the only way to have that work out, it would have been jarring and bad writing if that hadn't been resolved in some way during that time.

It was jarring and bad writing the way they did resolve it.

You're exactly right. We did see Cap and how his sessions. Natasha trying to save the world. Clint likewise, in his own way. Tony moving on.

We didn't SEE Banner/Hulk resolve anything. We were told it. "Show, don't tell" is bog standard story advice in any medium.

And, why didn't Hulk come out in Avengers: Infinity War? There's no answer in the movie; no resolution. It's just a dropped plot point. You can speculate or guess, but the fact is they just didn't answer the question.