Avengers: Endgame SPOILER THREAD

Umbran · May 11, 2019

Hussar said:
As I said, I'm really not seeing the issue here.

That's your problem at the point. I am not going to try to make it clear to you. Please don't mention me again in this thread.

Have a good weekend.

Hussar · May 11, 2019

But, again, it's not like this is a male centric viewpoint. There are lots and lots of women who react exactly this way to being able to have children. It's entirely plausible. There are numerous papers that support the psychological effects of a hysterectomy on women. Never minding being violated in such a way that you are forcibly sterilized.

And, I keep coming back around to the fact that Black Widow sacrificed herself. She wasn't murdered. She wasn't accidentally killed. She CHOSE to save Hawkeye because he had a family. This is completely in keeping with character.

If any other character actually agreed with Black Widow that her sterilization made her less of a person or less of a hero, then I think the criticisms would be valid. Thing is, no one does. She says it, but, she's shown to be wrong. And she proves the point wrong by ending as a 100% bad ass hero.

MarkB · May 11, 2019

Dannyalcatraz said:
Agreed with all about the facts of BW’s sterilization. (All similes ultimately fail at some point.)

The point is, regardless of the infertility’s causation, the prospective alternative Darth Vader’s negative view of himself based on infertility would probably be seen as a weakly written characteristic in him, and it isn’t any better for her. And some would assert it is worse, given the historical context of how men have viewed and valued women.

Would it really be any weaker than what we got? Anakin's clingy, one-sided love and desperate fear of abandonment isn't exactly a great motivation for a villain. Having him be truly in love with Padme, but finding that he was physically unable to give her the family that both he and she wanted, would hardly have been any weaker as a motivation.

Hussar · May 12, 2019

I'd also point out that there are numerous characters that are killed in the Avengers movies. Is Vision fridged? He didn't get a funeral. His death is a major motivation for Scarlet Witch. Does that count as fridging. He was also killed to further Thanos' story, so, what's the difference between Vision and Black Widow? As I recall, didn't Thanos kill The Collector as well, for exactly the same reason - to get the stone.

So, it's not like Thanos only kills Gamora to get a Stone. He kills LOTS of people to get the stones. I'm not sure you can single out Gamora and claim that her death should be treated differently.

jonesy · May 12, 2019

Only just saw the movie yesterday (it was awesome), and I haven't had a chance to read through everything here yet, so apologies if someone already mentioned this.

Jester David said:
Captain Marvel was underused. Okay, this makes sense as they were filming her movie at the same time, so she was likely pretty busy. And they didn't have a clear idea of her character.

In their interview on Ellen Brie and Scarlett mentioned that when Brie was shooting her scenes for Endgame they hadn't even started with the Captain Marvel movie (didn't even have a script), so Brie had no idea at all what the character was going to be like. She basically went into Endgame blind.

(They talk about it at 4:35 in that video.)

Blue · May 13, 2019

jonesy said:
In their interview on Ellen Brie and Scarlett mentioned that when Brie was shooting her scenes for Endgame they hadn't even started with the Captain Marvel movie (didn't even have a script), so Brie had no idea at all what the character was going to be like. She basically went into Endgame blind.

Great googly moogly!

Knowing that you have a movie focusing on you coming up that you have no idea what your character will be like, but needing to portray that character accurately in a different movie filming first, showing second, that will have a huge audience.

Ugh, I do not envy Brie Larson.

This does explain why they kept down the numebr of character interaction scenes. Not flinching when Thor testing her is an easy guess. But there was discussion about why she wasn't around for mourning of Black Widow and not knowing how the character takes it (stoic, empathizing, etc.) is much harder.

Thanks, I did not know that and it helps put some things in perspective.

Nellisir · May 14, 2019

A second viewing was definitely helpful for me. I still stand by most of my previous commentary (I'm a bit more relaxed about Thor), but it was nice to actually relax into a bit.

Janx · Jun 3, 2019

There is murmur that Namor was hinted at during the conference call and one of the problems was left at the bottom of the ocean.

Now here's the thing I think would be awesome. Get Jason Momoa to play Namor.

Go ahead, get the sputtering out of your system.

Yeah. Exactly.

Rip-off the rip-off by sharing the actor.