D&D 5E Alacrity, a new Ability Score

Blue · Jul 15, 2017

MechaPilot said:
I agree, and I've been considering merging Strength and Constitution.

However, I do feel like Dex has too much (initiative modifier, attack modifier for ranged or finesse, AC modifier, & one of the most important damage reducing saves in 5e) in relation to the other scores, and a score that takes away from just the Dex stat seems more like it's creating stat parity than it is diluting useful stats into dump stats.

Perhaps if there is concerns about diluting stats and separate concerns abotu Dex being overloaded, the option would be to move some of what Dex has to other, existing scores.

Being able to assess a situation and craft a reaction sounds like INT, which no one will say is an overloaded ability score. Move Initiative off to it.

There's been some who say that 5e has made ranged combat too good. Perhaps go back to an earlier edition and keep finesse and ranged weapon damage bonus with STR. Higher pull bows, etc. This also keeps STR more important.

This would leave DEX as AC mod (in light and partially in medium), attack bonus with finesse & ranged (but not damage), and one of the big-three saves. Still a good ability score, but not as overpowering.

Lanefan · Jul 15, 2017

This sounds similar to what was done to Charisma in 1e - Unearthed Arcana introduced a 7th stat "Comeliness" which split out the physical attractiveness aspect of Charisma from the persuasiveness and charm aspect.

The net effect was merely to provide another place for a dump stat to go.

That said, I forget what game system it was (I saw this ages ago) that had taken the 6 D&D stats and in effect split each of them into two - so, a 12-stat game. If memory serves, the idea was really good - the splits were logical and made sense - but the resulting implementation wasn't exactly elegant, and nor - if I recall - was roll-up. I forget what each of the 12 stats was called so I'll dream up some names below.

But, if done right something like this might hold water.

I'd probably start by rolling or generating the original six stats as normal, only twice (and if using array or point-buy declare the same number cannot go in the same stat twice, to cut down on abuses). Then, no matter how you've done it or what method you've used, each original stat has two numbers. One goes into one of the splits for that stat, the other into the second.

So, as I get further carried away here... Each stat (in the proper order!) broken down, with some rough and not-perfect examples of what might go under where:

Strength --> Strength (encumbrance, 1e bend-bars lift-gates type of stuff), Brawn (brute force in combat)
Intelligence --> Intellect (some knowledge skills, reasoning, some perception), Memory (spell retention and casting, some knowledge skills)
Wisdom --> Wisdom (realization of consequences, foresight), Inspiration (divine casting stuff, some perception)
Dexterity --> Alacrity (speed, dodging, TWF), Nimbleness (climbing, lockpicking, tumbling)
Constitution --> Starch (hit points, toughness), Stamina (concentration, resistance to poison-disease-death-etc.)
Charisma --> Persuasiveness (diplomacy, willpower), Comeliness (attractiveness, first impressions, charm)

Some common things like stealth and hiding might have their effects spread over several sub-stats - stealth, for example, might take elements from Intellect, Wisdom, Alacrity, Nimbleness and Persuasiveness on a situation-dependent basis.

Lan-"and that's enough thinking for one day"-efan

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 16, 2017

MechaPilot said:
They won't be penalized with the speed penalty; that is very true. However, they would still have a -1 to their Initiative modifier (which could frankly be very deadly at first level).

Anything that hurts you primarily at first level doesn't matter. Either you luck out and survive, or you die and roll up a new character with different stats.

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GX.Sigma · Jul 16, 2017

I know this is a minor point, but why not just call it "Speed"? That's a very clear, well-known, one-syllable word.

MechaPilot · Jul 16, 2017

Hemlock said:
Anything that hurts you primarily at first level doesn't matter. Either you luck out and survive, or you die and roll up a new character with different stats.

I agree. And, while a -1 penalty to initiative could be deadly to a first level character, there's no guarantee it will be that dangerous.

GX.Sigma said:
I know this is a minor point, but why not just call it "Speed"? That's a very clear, well-known, one-syllable word.

Because "Speed" is already a defined stat measured in feet and not in the 3-20 range of attribute scores. If the attribute were called "Speed" you'd have to deal with questions like "does Ray of Frost reduce your speed by 10 or your speed by 10?"

FormerlyHemlock · Jul 16, 2017

GX.Sigma said:
I know this is a minor point, but why not just call it "Speed"? That's a very clear, well-known, one-syllable word.

Because of ambiguity perhaps? Confusion with movement speed?

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FormerlyHemlock · Jul 16, 2017

We should rename Constitution "Durability", Wisdom "Perspicacity", Charisma "Likability", Intelligence "Acuity", and Strength "Muscularity."

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Fractal Rabbit · Jul 16, 2017

Lanefan said:
This sounds similar to what was done to Charisma in 1e - Unearthed Arcana introduced a 7th stat "Comeliness" which split out the physical attractiveness aspect of Charisma from the persuasiveness and charm aspect.

The net effect was merely to provide another place for a dump stat to go.

That said, I forget what game system it was (I saw this ages ago) that had taken the 6 D&D stats and in effect split each of them into two - so, a 12-stat game. If memory serves, the idea was really good - the splits were logical and made sense - but the resulting implementation wasn't exactly elegant, and nor - if I recall - was roll-up. I forget what each of the 12 stats was called so I'll dream up some names below.

But, if done right something like this might hold water.

I'd probably start by rolling or generating the original six stats as normal, only twice (and if using array or point-buy declare the same number cannot go in the same stat twice, to cut down on abuses). Then, no matter how you've done it or what method you've used, each original stat has two numbers. One goes into one of the splits for that stat, the other into the second.

So, as I get further carried away here... Each stat (in the proper order!) broken down, with some rough and not-perfect examples of what might go under where:

Strength --> Strength (encumbrance, 1e bend-bars lift-gates type of stuff), Brawn (brute force in combat)
Intelligence --> Intellect (some knowledge skills, reasoning, some perception), Memory (spell retention and casting, some knowledge skills)
Wisdom --> Wisdom (realization of consequences, foresight), Inspiration (divine casting stuff, some perception)
Dexterity --> Alacrity (speed, dodging, TWF), Nimbleness (climbing, lockpicking, tumbling)
Constitution --> Starch (hit points, toughness), Stamina (concentration, resistance to poison-disease-death-etc.)
Charisma --> Persuasiveness (diplomacy, willpower), Comeliness (attractiveness, first impressions, charm)

Some common things like stealth and hiding might have their effects spread over several sub-stats - stealth, for example, might take elements from Intellect, Wisdom, Alacrity, Nimbleness and Persuasiveness on a situation-dependent basis.

Lan-"and that's enough thinking for one day"-efan

Ah! That was the Player's Options: Skills & Powers PHB circa 1995(?). We loved that system and used it heavily. I've heard some call it Edition 2.5 since then although we didn't back then.

Strength:
-Muscle
-Stamina
Constitution:
-Health
-Fitness
Dexterity
-Aim
-Balance
Intelligence
-Reason
-Knowledge
Wisdom
-Intuition
-Willpower
Charisma
-Leadership
-Appearance

Good times! I can see how such a system could be gamed and munchkined to a pulpy mess of a game. But we never really did.

For what it's worth, our group uses the Intelligence modifier with Initiative, in addition to Dexterity. It works for us. Makes people more reluctant to make Intelligence a dump stat.

MechaPilot · Jul 16, 2017

Since Alacrity would cover the ability to spring into action, what do you think of reactions modified by ability scores being forced to use the lower of the PC's Alacrity modifier or the modifier stated in the ability?

This would make sense in keeping with alacrity being speed, initiative, and eagerness related, and it would also further disincentivise dumping the stat.

plisnithus8 · Jul 16, 2017

Speed

What if you just use the normal Speed instead of Dexterity for Initiative.
Maybe divide your normal Speed (or swimming, climbing, flying speed, etc. if starting combat in that medium) by 5 and add that to Iniative.