Pages From The Upcoming Nautical D&D Book!

Hussar · Feb 21, 2019

oreofox said:
Does opening up Greyhawk, Planescape, Birthright, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, or any of the other myriad other settings for the DMsguild really hurt WotC's sales? Practically everything on that site is 3rd party. 3rd party products still have the stigma lingering from 3rd edition, nearly 20 years ago. Anyone can toss together overpowered garbage and throw it onto the dmsguild. Most DMs won't allow stuff from there, despite having the "approval" of WotC. Despite there being some pretty decent things on there, you still need to wade through a sea of crap. And woe be on the player who must convince their DM to allow something from there.

That still hurts the brand though. Why would I buy the WotC version of this crap updated module that I bought from DMsGuild? It's a crap module.

You say you get choice by them pigeonholing everything into the Forgotten Realms, that putting the Elemental Evil storyline into the Sword Coast is a good thing. What about the numerous others who have no choice? Numerous people on this forum have expressed their dislike of FR. Where's their choice? Putting the Elemental Evil adventure into the Sword Coast, or the Saltmarsh adventure (if this new book is indeed a remake or sequel to the old Saltmarsh adventures) into the Sword Coast, or one of the old Dark Sun or Al'Qadim adventures (remake or sequel) in the Anauroch desert?

You have the choice of running the original module. Which is the choice you have ALWAYS had. Why should I be forced to play in the original setting? You HAVE that choice. The modules are right there on DM's Guild. There are probably remakes for 5e OF those modules. I know a number of them have already been remade by various authors. So, why can't I have the choice? Why can't I have what I want, since you already got what you wanted?

Did Curse of Strahd split the player base? Did Guildmaster's Guide to Ravnica really split the playerbase (other than their opinion on it's creation over WotC updating an already existing setting)? With WotC's turtle's pace of a release schedule, I highly doubt they would experience the peril that befell TSR. They could release Planescape in an adventure (similar to Ravenloft and CoS), and give their little "In other settings" sidebar. They could do the same with all their other settings. If the adventure's premise is good, the DMs will buy it and adjust things to fit into their preferred setting, despite what the default setting of the adventure may be. And before you say it, yes they already do that. But why are FR DMs given preferrential treatment over an Eberron or Greyhawk DM?

Ravenloft was opened up AFTER Curse of Strahd. Meaning that DM's Guild becomes a giant resource for anyone wanting to run Curse of Strahd. IOW, DM's Guild wasn't competing with CoS but rather was busily banging out supplements FOR WotC's adventure. Same goes for the latest modules too. Dragon Heist has enough DM's Guild supplementary material to run for 20 levels. Easily. There's fantastic supplements for a module.

This is what's different today. The notion that modules now get supplementary support. It's amazing really.

Jay Verkuilen · Feb 21, 2019

oreofox said:
Al'Qadim adventures (remake or sequel) in the Anauroch desert?

As I recall, al'Qadim was always in Forgotten Realms, albeit a fairly distant part of it.

But why are FR DMs given preferrential treatment over an Eberron or Greyhawk DM?

Sales figures. Fans prioritize "content I want" and aspects like "true to the canon" or whatever factor into it. The bosses prioritize sales figures and don't actually care about the other aspects. They'd be just as happy selling you something that would have much more mainstream appeal if it made them more money. Someone in Mike Mearls' position has the delicate balancing act of keeping both happy but, ultimately, he knows who directly signs his paychecks every two weeks.

oreofox · Feb 21, 2019

Jay Verkuilen said:
As I recall, al'Qadim was always in Forgotten Realms, albeit a fairly distant part of it.

I honestly don't know much about Al'Qadim. I just know the adventures set within it had a different heading than Forgotten Realms. Though I am sure Maztica and Kara Tur did as well, and I know they are attached to the Forgotten Realms world.

Hussar said:
Ravenloft was opened up AFTER Curse of Strahd. Meaning that DM's Guild becomes a giant resource for anyone wanting to run Curse of Strahd. IOW, DM's Guild wasn't competing with CoS but rather was busily banging out supplements FOR WotC's adventure. Same goes for the latest modules too. Dragon Heist has enough DM's Guild supplementary material to run for 20 levels. Easily. There's fantastic supplements for a module.

This is what's different today. The notion that modules now get supplementary support. It's amazing really.

That's what I was actually trying to get at. Set this aquatic adventure in Greyhawk, which will open up the setting for dmsguild, and then let the fans run wild with the setting, and never publish anything else. Make the next adventure set in Planescape or Dragonlance or one of the many others. Then open that setting up for the fans to make things on the dmsguild, and then WotC can go back to acting like these settings don't exist except for lip service in the "In other settings" sidebar in the next adventures. It's been almost 3 years since Strahd. WotC hasn't touched Ravenloft since. The same would be true for their other settings. Release one adventure, then WotC wouldn't need to touch that setting again.

Jester David · Feb 21, 2019

oreofox said:
That's what I was actually trying to get at. Set this aquatic adventure in Greyhawk, which will open up the setting for dmsguild, and then let the fans run wild with the setting, and never publish anything else. Make the next adventure set in Planescape or Dragonlance or one of the many others. Then open that setting up for the fans to make things on the dmsguild, and then WotC can go back to acting like these settings don't exist except for lip service in the "In other settings" sidebar in the next adventures.

Why would you want that when:

oreofox said:
Practically everything on that site is 3rd party. 3rd party products still have the stigma lingering from 3rd edition, nearly 20 years ago. Anyone can toss together overpowered garbage and throw it onto the dmsguild. Most DMs won't allow stuff from there, despite having the "approval" of WotC. Despite there being some pretty decent things on there, you still need to wade through a sea of crap. And woe be on the player who must convince their DM to allow something from there.

If the DMsGuild is so terrible and full of content that nobody really uses, why do you care if Greyhawk is on there or not?Plus... having seen what people are doing with Ravenloft and Eberron, there's not a lot of setting expansion going on. How is the setting going to be supported by being on the DMsGuild more than it is right now? What do you need to play Greyhawk in 5e that you don't already have?

DEFCON 1 · Feb 21, 2019

Heh... the opening up of old settings on DMs Guild has become the call-out that a new book of 5E mechanics was 5 years ago.

5 years ago a vocal minority kept complaining that WotC wasn't releasing material fast enough and that a new splatbook HAD to happen, despite being told by the company that is wasn't going to until at least several years down the line.

Now 5 years later, it's that the opening of old settings HAS to happen, despite being told by the company that it isn't going to happen until they produce a product for each setting, at which time they probably will.

Suffice it to say... the doom and gloom that was suppositioned 5 years ago never came to pass... and I suspect the same here. The only difference? At least the people from five years ago were requesting products that most of the gaming community would probably actually want... the folks today who want to create products for things like Mystara are aiming for like the smallest slice of the pie possible.

Parmandur · Feb 21, 2019

Jester David said:
Why would you want that when:If the DMsGuild is so terrible and full of content that nobody really uses, why do you care if Greyhawk is on there or not?Plus... having seen what people are doing with Ravenloft and Eberron, there's not a lot of setting expansion going on. How is the setting going to be supported by being on the DMsGuild more than it is right now? What do you need to play Greyhawk in 5e that you don't already have?

I have the old Greyhawk boxed set in PDF, and there is literally nothing I cannot use in a 5E game in that set. Even the random tables can be used as is, more or less.

Staffan · Feb 21, 2019

oreofox said:
Does opening up Greyhawk, Planescape, Birthright, Dragonlance, Dark Sun, or any of the other myriad other settings for the DMsguild really hurt WotC's sales?

I don't think it's so much about sales as it is about dibs. Wizards don't want anyone else to do the core bits of their old settings, because that would lead to a dozen competing versions and no One True Birthright. Instead they want to release a core for others to expand on, one that at least gives a common ground.

oreofox · Feb 21, 2019

Jester David said:
Why would you want that when:
If the DMsGuild is so terrible and full of content that nobody really uses, why do you care if Greyhawk is on there or not?Plus... having seen what people are doing with Ravenloft and Eberron, there's not a lot of setting expansion going on. How is the setting going to be supported by being on the DMsGuild more than it is right now? What do you need to play Greyhawk in 5e that you don't already have?

Yes, the dmsguild is rather terrible. I admit that. It's rather close to dandwiki with some of the content people put on there. But there have been some really good gems. Has been that way since they opened it up in 2016 (I put my first product up on there nearly 3 years ago to the date). Not many people I come across use the fan-made stuff. Opening more settings would give the chance of some gems popping up based in those settings.

Also, what do you need to play Forgotten Realms in 5e that wasn't already available from the past 30-40 years? Why focus on Greyhawk, and not mention one of the other settings. Greyhawk and FR both have basically the same races. But why not open up Ansalon and Dragonlance? There are races, classes, subclasses, monsters, and other things rather unique to that setting that are not available using the generic Forgotten Realms products. What about Spelljammer? What about Dark Sun? I see so many people pining for that setting (I don't see the appeal, but apparently a large number love it).
[MENTION=7006]DEFCON 1[/MENTION] : 5 years ago, they just barely ended the playtest, and wouldn't truly release 5e for another 6ish months. But yes, not long after release, people were clamoring for a non-adventure 5e book. It took just over 2 years for them to release something that wasn't an adventure: Volo's Guide to Monsters. It gave DMs new monsters, and players a few new racial options. And people loved it. The next year they released the first fully player-oriented book: Xanathar's Guide to Everything. And people ate that book up. A year before Volo's, they released the forgettable and disappointing Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide.

Now, thanks to Curse of Strahd, people are clamoring for them to release something for the other settings. And when CoS was released, and opened on the dmsguild, it was flooded with Ravenloft and horror-centric products, and it dwindled when Yawning Portal was released. Then came generic stuff, and when ToA was released, it was flooded with jungle-themed products. Release a Dragonlance adventure (hell, even a remake of the War of the Lance adventures would be alright with me) and it would be flooded with Dragonlance-centric items. Those who want to create products for Mystara may be aiming for a super small slice, but open Mystara up on the DMsguild and you will be flooded with Mystara products for at least a month, possibly two. Hell, even Birthright would get a huge flood of fan made products for a month, and I am sure that was the setting with the smallest fanbase back in the 90s.

oreofox · Feb 21, 2019

Staffan said:
I don't think it's so much about sales as it is about dibs. Wizards don't want anyone else to do the core bits of their old settings, because that would lead to a dozen competing versions and no One True Birthright. Instead they want to release a core for others to expand on, one that at least gives a common ground.

That's what I am wanting them to do. Release a "Curse of Strahd" for all the other settings, where the setting information is contained within an adventure based within that setting. WotC can make their "One True Birthright" core setting, bundle it in with an adventure (either a remake, a sequel, or something completely new) within that setting, and release it.

Jay Verkuilen · Feb 21, 2019

oreofox said:
I honestly don't know much about Al'Qadim. I just know the adventures set within it had a different heading than Forgotten Realms. Though I am sure Maztica and Kara Tur did as well, and I know they are attached to the Forgotten Realms world.

Al'Qadim was really good. It was some of the best material TSR ever wrote.