Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
You think a +1 all by itself is good?
D&D 5E Point Buy vs Rolling for Stats
You think a +1 all by itself is good?
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
Is water wet?
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
Not powdered water.
A +1 with no other bonuses is decent, but not good, even in bounded accuracy. You'll have a chance of success that's marginally better than no bonus, but it's hardly going to be giving you reliable, or even probable success.
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
1. I hope powdered water is an attempt at humor...
2. Where did this no other bonuses come from?
3. A +2 or +3 isn't going to give you reliable or even probably success either. Are those bonuses not good as well?
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
I've been arguing that class abilities are far more important than a +1 from a stat. [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] is arguing that the good prime stat scores, in addition to +1's in non-prime stats, the ones that are used for skills and saves where you don't have proficiency, are enough to make a "cheating", "superhero", "Mary Sue", and "the rest of the descriptions I have forgotten" character. I'm saying that the isolated +1 is fairly meaningless. It doesn't add much to success.
By themselves with no proficiency? Better than +1, but still not great. That's my point. Stats don't mean a whole heck of a lot in 5e. Character abilities, player ingenuity and roleplaying are far more effective than the stats are.
FrogReaver
As long as i get to be the frog
1. You are wrong about [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] and his position.
2. You mean stats other than your primary stats right?
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
I'm not. [MENTION=6801845]Oofta[/MENTION] has said straight out that some 16s and the rest 12's is enough. Those 16s will be in the prime stats, so the 12's are going to be in the non-prime stats.
That would be what non-prime means, yes.
Hussar
Legend
It's funny that you accuse me of not reading when everyone else is saying the same thing I am about what you wrote. Perhaps it isn't me.
But, in any case a 14 is 35% chance of success, which is 50% higher than your chances because you have a -1 stat.
However, since stats apparently don't matter, according to you, then you obviously play straight 10 characters right? After all, it's all about class and ingenuity, right? Stats don't matter. So, why aren't you playing with flat stat characters?
Oofta
Legend
What I'm saying is that it's simply not true that stats don't have a significant impact on a characters effectiveness. You may not care if there are winners and losers in the random result lottery. You may think it's a benefit, a feature that is worth having. That for you having significantly more powerful characters than other members of the group adds to the fun. I don't.
I wrote a program a while back to simulate 100,000 characters using 4d6 drop lowest with 6 characters in the group.
- 2% of the groups had 1 character with at least 1 18 and another character with no stat above a 14.
- I compared point buy cost (using 3.5 point buy for numbers above 15). The average "gap" between best and worst in any given group was a 25 point buy difference, for example 12, 11, 10, 9, 9, 10 versus 16, 15, 9, 12, 15, 11. Those are significant differences in potential.
Then just for the heck of it rolled up a group of 6. The lowest result was 11, 15, 9, 12, 10, 13. It's not horrible. But the highest? 12, 18, 16, 12, 12, 13.
Was this a statistical anomaly? It doesn't seem like it, more like a typical result. But you have one mediocre character and one character with a lot of strengths and no weaknesses. I'm not going to bother doing my fight analysis again, but I suspect that the former numbers will lose the sample fight against the hell hound by a few rounds while the latter will win by a few rounds. It's a significant difference.
But of course, I'm probably just lying about numbers again. Because after all you've analyzed "thousands" of characters over the years.
Maxperson
Morkus from Orkus
It's funny that you accuse me of not reading when everyone else is saying the same thing I am about what you wrote. Perhaps it isn't me.
But, in any case a 14 is 35% chance of success, which is 50% higher than your chances because you have a -1 stat.
However, since stats apparently don't matter, according to you, then you obviously play straight 10 characters right? After all, it's all about class and ingenuity, right? Stats don't matter. So, why aren't you playing with flat stat characters?
Get back to me when you will respond to what I say instead of twisting it.
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