D&D General Vote Up A 5e-alike, Part 3: Stats and ASIs

[TwoSix]

Genuine question because I'm feeling a bit dumb at the moment: how would you divorce the two? Are you talking about going back to a BAB/THAC0 deal where your to-hit is based more on your class than on your stat? Or do you mean something else?

Exactly that.

There's a lot of ways you could implement it. The simplest one I've actually used is that you can always use your proficiency bonus in place of your stat modifier for attacks/damage/spell saves if the proficiency bonus is higher. So your attack bonus would have a floor of +4 at level 1, a +6 at level 5, a +8 at level 9, etc. It makes having a higher stat a bonus if you have it, but eventually it gets eclipsed by the proficiency bonus (unless you have a belt of cloud giant strength or something), and it makes playing a non-Str or Dex fighter or a non-Int wizard totally viable.

This makes assigning your stats become based on prioritizing skills or saves or just concept, which I feel is a better approach. Not tying a class to a "prime requisite" stat allows for a more freeform approach to character building.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Genuine question because I'm feeling a bit dumb at the moment: how would you divorce the two? Are you talking about going back to a BAB/THAC0 deal where your to-hit is based more on your class than on your stat? Or do you mean something else?

I would definitely be more interested in moving in that direction. I would also be interested in flattening the modifier gained from stats. That way, the modifier itself can affect combat, but it isn't nearly so primary.

So basically, like TSR and the OSR do it.

 

[Twiggly the Gnome]

Bake the the initial stat boosts into character generation, no level based ASIs, have proficiency bonus top out at +8.

Level	Proficiency Bonus
1	+2
2	+2
3	+3
4	+3
5	+3
6	+4
7	+4
8	+4
9	+5
10	+5
11	+5
12	+6
13	+6
14	+6
15	+7
16	+7
17	+7
18	+8
19	+8
20	+8

 

[Faolyn]

And Poll 3.1 is up!

 

[Lanefan]

Genuine question because I'm feeling a bit dumb at the moment: how would you divorce the two? Are you talking about going back to a BAB/THAC0 deal where your to-hit is based more on your class than on your stat?

I'd vote for this.

Strength (melee) or Dex (ranged) is fine as a to-hit bonus but the root combat matrix (or BAB) should be class-based.

 

[Scribe]

I'd vote for this.

Strength (melee) or Dex (ranged) is fine as a to-hit bonus but the root combat matrix (or BAB) should be class-based.

This also aids in the Fighter/Caster discussions.

 

[RangerWickett]

@RangerWickett just to dig into your post...

Okay, so
Strength affects weapon/armour usage and encumbrance and skills.
Constitution affects hit points (perhaps a reduced rate) and skills
Dexterity affects initiative and skills.
Intelligence provides more skill points/languages and skills.
Wisdom affects skills.
Charisma affects number of attuned items and skills.

I'd go:

STR - gear you can carry and use effectively, plus climb/jump/swim, and probably shove/grab; also saves to resist movement
DEX - skills are good enough (Acrobatics, Stealth, Thievery); also saves to resist area damage
CON - HP; also saves to resist poison
INT - skills, languages; no saves, but I would probably give people bonus skills
WIS - skills; also saves to resist illusions, deception, and attacks on your soul
CHA - skills (the best skills, one might say); also saves to resist charm and compulsion

Your saving throw bonuses would be affected by your ability scores (and proficiency). But the save DC of spells would just scale by level, maybe with options for characters to pick certain abilities they want to be extra good at.

Just set the numbers to fair amounts, and rely on tactics to provide bonuses.

What numbers are we talking about, can you provide an example?

I prefer stuff to be affected by actions in play, and not only by choices during character creation. What I'd kinda love would be a mashup 5e-PF2 system, where your actions are used to directly progress toward victory (by dealing damage with attacks or casting major spells), but your bonus actions were all set up to do nifty things:

• Pose a dilemma (e.g., create an aura, and if your opponent ends their turn in the aura, bad thing happens; or Press an opponent in melee: you choose a spot within 15 feet, and if they don't back up to it, you get +1d4 on your attacks against them next turn; if they do back up, you can't make OAs, but you can follow freely)
• Buff an ally (e.g., if you are a spellcaster, you can spend a bonus action to increase the DC of an ally spellcaster's next spell by 1d4)
• Battlefield adjustment (e.g., throw alchemist fire -- which does damage at end of turn if you stay in the fire, but not upon attack; or minor spells that conjure wind, smoke, etc.)
• Extreme mobility (e.g., jumping, misty step, throwing people)

So instead of trying to get stat boosts to increase your attack rolls and save DCs, you'd instead use bonus actions to do various tricks and tactics. Now there's a more narrative heft to things.