D&D General Vote Up A 5e-alike, Part 3: Stats and ASIs

[Lanefan]

Pathfinder 2nd edition has it where all of your ability scores start out at 10, and then you use ASIs from your Ancestry, your Background and your Class to make them better.

So it's impossible to play a character with even one below-average stat?

How dull.

 

[W'rkncacnter]

So it's impossible to play a character with even one below-average stat?

How dull.

no, plenty of ancestries get an ability flaw (which reduce a stat by 2), and you can optionally take flaws even if your ancestry doesn't have one (or if it does, but not 2 flaws in the same stat).

 

[Corinnguard]

Pathfinder 2nd edition even gives you a free ability score boost that you can apply to any of the ability score not covered by your two ability score boosts. You can even apply the free ability score boost to the ability score that has the ability score flaw. So if you are playing a Dwarf in PF2, you get a +2 CON, +2 WIS and a -2 CHA. The free ability score boost you get at 1st level can be used in the following ways:

1. +2 STR, +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA
2. +2 DEX, +2 CON, +2 WIS, -2 CHA
3. +2 CON, +2 INT, +2 WIS, -2 CHA
4. +2 CON, +2 WIS

I like Tasha's rules where you get to pick which of the 6 ability scores gets the +2/+1 or the +1/+1/+1. Like earlier versions of 5e, PF2's ability score system favors certain classes over others when it comes to certain ancestries.

 

[AnotherGuy]

@RangerWickett just to dig into your post...

Or more seriously, if I were in charge of D&D, I'd keep the 6 scores, since the 6 scores are sacred cows -- but they're kinda dumb sacred cows.

So I'd try to divorce combat from ability scores.

Okay, so
Strength affects weapon/armour usage and encumbrance and skills.
Constitution affects hit points (perhaps a reduced rate) and skills
Dexterity affects initiative and skills.
Intelligence provides more skill points/languages and skills.
Wisdom affects skills.
Charisma affects number of attuned items and skills.

Ditto save DCs being modified by Int/Wis/Cha for spellcasters.

What about one own's saving throws? Do you imagine ability scores still influencing those?

Just set the numbers to fair amounts, and rely on tactics to provide bonuses.

What numbers are we talking about, can you provide an example?
As for monsters how do you envision monster combat being affected in terms of attack and damage?
Perhaps some sort of new metric?

Attack Roll (based on combat proficiency and rank)
Non-proficient +0
Proficient +2
Expert +5
Master +8
Legendary +11

Elites gain a +1, Std basic, Underlings -1

Damage (based on their size)
Medium +1
Large +3
Huge +6
Gargantuan +12

 

[Minigiant]

So it's impossible to play a character with even one below-average stat?

How dull.

PCs are weird, 8 isn't a dump stat. 6 is.

a powergamed Gnome ancestry +2 INT -2STR
with the Sage background +1 INT
of a High Magic culture +1INT -1STR

Should be looking at -3STR +4 INT and quickly see themselves knocked over and coup de graced by an primitive axe rager with their 5 Strength.

 

[Faolyn]

Divorcing combat from ability scores would immediately fix like 40% of 5e's overall problems. It's the number one easy change anyone can make to do a better version of 5e.

Genuine question because I'm feeling a bit dumb at the moment: how would you divorce the two? Are you talking about going back to a BAB/THAC0 deal where your to-hit is based more on your class than on your stat? Or do you mean something else?

 

[Faolyn]

The Standard 6 is fine.

The problem with the Standard 6 wasn't with the Standard 6 itself. It was due to the lack of balance due to the designers' biases and inconsistencies.

The next 3.1 poll should be voting up what each Ability score affects.
Like Should DEX affect AC, Initiative, Reflex saves, Ranged weapons, Finesse Weapons AND 4-6 Skills?
Could STR grant HP or be you Shield bonus to AC?
Could INT affect AC in Light Armor like 4e or bonus skills like 3e?

Good idea!

 

[Faolyn]

Like, Strength can still affect what kind of weapons and armor you can use, but I wouldn't have it affect attack rolls.

I am interested in the idea of not having stats affect combat (or at least, not having them affect combat quite so much), this problem could be solved by simply bringing back limited weapon proficiencies as per 2e.

Don't bother separating weapons into martial and simple. At most, have very tight weapon groups (say, longbows and shortbows as one group; short sword and dagger as another--the exact groups can be determined later). A fighter (or other martial) is proficient in, say, six or eight weapons or weapon groups of their choice, and maybe one more based on culture, background, or personal history; this one could be determined in the culture write-up or chosen by the player with DM approval. A wizard or sorcerer might be proficient in two or three weapons (but not weapon groups) chosen from a small list. A rogue might be proficient also in six or eight weapons, but chosen from a small list. The character can gain additional weapon proficiencies with training or simply by leveling up.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Standard because I'm lazy. Maybe get rid of CON because it serves no practical use aside from inflating HP

Floating ASIs only. If we have to have base stats and we have to tie class competence to them, then it's the only way to stop punishing creativity.

 

[Corinnguard]

Don't bother separating weapons into martial and simple. At most, have very tight weapon groups (say, longbows and shortbows as one group; short sword and dagger as another--the exact groups can be determined later).

Fighter – d20PFSRD Something like Pathfinder 1st edition's Weapon Training feature for Fighters?