Thoughts on wands being overpowered in 5E

Oofta said:

So much of this depends on the campaign and the DM. In games I run a wand of fireball may not be as useful as in other people's campaigns. Fireballs are dangerous in many situations, causing all sorts of unintended fires and damage. Sure it's a great spell once in a while, but it's not going to be very useful in a typical town with thatch-roofed buildings or if you're in the woods during the middle of a drought unless you want to be trapped in the middle of a forest fire. In addition, bad guys tend to come in waves or from different directions.

But it's also why I think about magic items before handing them out. I want PCs to have cool and awesome abilities, but they also shouldn't be defined by one single item.

Click to expand...

Great point! I actually took over DMing this group, so I wasn't the one who handed it out. I'd just like input for future groups. I was the enchantment wizard (which was underpowered in our campaign) so when I got the wand I felt I had to use it. When I took over as DM, I passed the wand off to our local bard, who ended up not using it because it felt too overpowered to her (she didn't want to be defined by the wand as you mention). She opted for her wand of wonders instead as it suited her character more.

But yeah, I'm loving some of the alternatives I've seen on here. Our group didn't play with much being flammable and I never considered that as a DM (I certainly will from now on). Keep the ideas and perspectives coming, I appreciate it.

Satyrn said:

That still looks like a good solution to me.

The intriguing thing I got out of that conversation was that the wands of fireball and lightning bolt are probably overwhelming before 7th level, and rather ho-hum by 11th. I guess like everything, there's a sweetspot for them.

Click to expand...

I think that it's worth nothing that I'm less worried about the wand of lightning bolt than fireball. It's very rare you'll line up more than oh, 3 foes with a bolt? Fireball you can hit more than that, easily.

My guys have a wand of magic missiles and liked max firing it as a shot gun which saved their bacon a few times. They also have a ring of shooting stars- for items like those I only allow 1 charge per day to recharge so they do use them sparingly.

I also like limiting more powerful wands (eg lighting bolt/fireball) etc to a max number of charges (usually 20- did the same in 1e & 2e) and allow wands to be recharged at a set fee- gets rid of some of that annoying cash players want to spend.

Stormdale

Jonathon Robinson said:

I have found that the wands seem too powerful in 5E for their rarity.

In particular, Wand of Fireball and Wand of Lightning Bolt. A wizard can't cast 7 fireballs in a day until 9th level., so having just one of these wands is like having an additional level 9 wizard in your party (who is particularly combat focused).

Click to expand...

In no way is this "adding another wizard" because it's not changing the action economy. Another wizard wouldn't be taking up your actions. So let's tone done the hyperbole and look at what's really happening.

First, "adding in a fireball" is only half the equation. There's an opportunity cost of performing some other action. At the least, the action is of no cost - a cantrip. At the other end, the action is one with a cost but would be more effective - such as an upcast fireball that will end the combat sooner.

Second, if you used 7 charges, you might have just destroyed the item. Likely you'll leave at least 1 charge. It regained d6+1 charges per day. Please note that Identifying a Magic Item (DMG pg 136) does not tell you the number of charges - that requires the Identify spell. So once you've brought it down to 1, without using Identify, you can only count on using it twice a day to avoid a chance to burn it out. Even with using Identify you can only use it average 4.5 times per day after the first, not 7.

EDIT: Thanks [MENTION=7706]SkidAce[/MENTION] for pointing out that there are additional rules for attunement under "Activating an Item" that does allow one to know how many charges it has and are regained. I was only looking udner the Attunement section and various Wands.

Third, you're not just comparing against other rare items, you're comparing against other rare items that require attunement. Like +2 to all spell attack rolls.

Jonathon Robinson said:

According to the DMG, these wands could start appearing around 5th level. I can attest that a level 6 party with one of these wands is a force to be reckoned with.

Click to expand...

To stand on the shoulders of @FireLance who already did the math (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-of-quot-Typical-quot-Magic-Item-Distribution), a character can expect to find 2 rare items over 20 levels of adventuring, the first around level 10. So while yes, it is possible that items come up sooner, that's not the most common result. Having some extra 3rd level spells when you can cast 5th level spells is definitely nice, but maybe not as nice as a different rare item that would boost those 5th level slots.

Not to terrify those worried about this more, but these Wands are on Table G and that table appears for treasure at all levels. You could find it at first level.

[MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION] , attunement tells how many charges.

D&D Beyond said:

Charges
Some magic items have charges that must be expended to activate their properties. The number of charges an item has remaining is revealed when an identify spell is cast on it, as well as when a creature attunes to it. Additionally, when an item regains charges, the creature attuned to it learns how many charges it regained.

Click to expand...

SkidAce said:

@Blue , attunement tells how many charges.

Click to expand...

I just reread the Attunement section of the DMG (pgs 136 & 138) and it does not. It will tell you how to activate it, but does not mention anything about charges. It gives you: "...the creature gains an intuitive understanding of how to activate any magical properties of the item, including any necessary command words." Nothing else.

Contrast the Identify spell which explicitly tells you the number of charges. " If it is a magic item or some other magic-imbued object, you learn its properties and how to use them , whether it requires attunement to use, and how many charges it has, if any. You learn whether any spells are affecting the item and what they are. If the item was created by a spell, you learn which spell created it."

Identify makes it pretty clear that there's a lot more information about an item. Attunement doesn't give the full list, just the subset about how to activate.

I also looked at the Wands to see if they had specific, additional rules about Attunement, but they don't.

Is there somewhere else that talks about Attunement granting more information such as charges? There is a lot of information scattered through the books, I could easily have missed something.

Blue said:

Is there somewhere else that talks about Attunement granting more information such as charges? There is a lot of information scattered through the books, I could easily have missed something.

Click to expand...

DMG pg 141, Activating an Item...Charges..

SkidAce said:

DMG pg 141, Activating an Item...Charges..

Click to expand...

Excellent - you are entirely correct. I'll go edit my original post.

Blue said:

In no way is this "adding another wizard" because it's not changing the action economy. Another wizard wouldn't be taking up your actions. So let's tone done the hyperbole and look at what's really happening.

First, "adding in a fireball" is only half the equation. There's an opportunity cost of performing some other action. At the least, the action is of no cost - a cantrip. At the other end, the action is one with a cost but would be more effective - such as an upcast fireball that will end the combat sooner.

Click to expand...

You're right, I got carried away with hyperbole. It's more like the character can act like a level 9 wizard with 7 free 3rd level slots for fireball. Which compared to a level 5 wizard is very powerful.

Blue said:

Second, if you used 7 charges, you might have just destroyed the item. Likely you'll leave at least 1 charge. It regained d6+1 charges per day.

Click to expand...

It is true that most players will keep that last slot free even though there's only a 5% chance of the wand breaking. I call it the hail mary slot.

Blue said:

Please note that Identifying a Magic Item (DMG pg 136) does not tell you the number of charges - that requires the Identify spell. So once you've brought it down to 1, without using Identify, you can only count on using it twice a day to avoid a chacne to brun it out. Even with using Identify you can only use it average 4.5 times per day after the first, not 7.

Click to expand...

Wand of fireballs requires attunement. The players will always know how many slots they have available if you follow RAW. I agree it is 4.5 times per day, or 6-7 if you're new to the dungeon (assuming you include travel time).

Blue said:

Third, you're not just comparing against other rare items, you're comparing against other rare items that require attunement. Like +2 to all spell attack rolls.

Click to expand...

Yes and no. Supposing you have free access to magic items, or magic items are common in your campaign, yes it has to be compared to other items requiring attunement. If magic items are rare and rolled on a chart, then attunement is less important and Magic Item Table G has both the wand of fireballs and necklace of fireballs. The Necklace of fireballs is basically the wand without recharges (1d6+3 beads averages to 6.5). There has been talk about converting the wand to a consumable so then you would have to compare it to other consumable items.

Blue said:

To stand on the shoulders of @FireLance who already did the math (http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-of-quot-Typical-quot-Magic-Item-Distribution), a character can expect to find 2 rare items over 20 levels of adventuring, the first around level 10. So while yes, it is possible that items come up sooner, that's not the most common result. Having some extra 3rd level spells when you can cast 5th level spells is definitely nice, but maybe not as nice as a different rare item that would boost those 5th level slots.

Click to expand...

By rarity I meant compared to other items in it's category (common, uncommon, rare, very rare, legendary). The frequency of the item coming up on a table has no bearing on its power. All rare items have equal opportunity on that table with a few exceptions. If the DM decides to follow the charts in the DMG and allow the PCs to buy rare items for 5,000 gp starting at level 5, the distribution table leaves the picture.

DMG said:

Page 135: rarity provides a rough measure of an item's power relative to other magic items

Click to expand...

Is this really true? Is wand of fireballs as powerful relatively speaking to other rare items? What I'm hearing from people is that wand of fireballs is very powerful for a rare item. Now the question about whether something should be done about it is dependent on the group. If magic items are rare and wonderful then don't touch its power level. If magic items can be bought at a store, perhaps it should have less charges or be a consumable.