What exactly is a Grognard?

[UngainlyTitan]

By my reckoning, no, there never have been many of them. They come from the age of RPGs before the boomtime of the 1980s. Back then, there weren't many gamers at all, and only some of them had the direct wargaming roots of the True Grognard.

I am going to to be very skeptical of anyone who claims to be this type of grognard if they are under 40 to 45 years old.

Well I am one of them and fall in to the right age bracket.
To contradict Cadfan's ealier post I think 4e is the coolest D&D evar
My 14 yaer old nephew agrees with me.

I also would not accept the idea of a 3e grognard.

Now I better get back and read the rest of the thread.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

I don't think your definition of "grognard" matches it's modern-day usage. The idea that there are no 3E grognards when grognard basically means "groaner" seems pretty far-out. There certainly people who loved 3E and think everything after it is terrible, and that fits with the more common usage of the term.

Well the original grognards (French Imperial Old Guard) were generally complaning about being kept out of the fray and when send in to battle, generally did the business.

That said, on these boards the term grognard has been flung about with all sorts of meanings and occasionally with different meaning by the same person. An no I am not going to trawl back through edition war threads to cite examples.

Any the Old Guard had 10 + years of service before they were allowed in. 3e has not been around long enough yet.
Give it two years and I will accept the term.

 

[Mercurius]

"Grognard" is in the same family of words as "munchkin" and "fanboy" - it's a convenient perjorative stereotype used to insult the intelligence of someone you don't agree with.

Not necessarily true. It depends upon usage: Many people call themselves such terms and mean it more self-mockingly (e.g. "I'm an unabashed X-edition fanboy"). Or someone might call another a munchkin or a grognard in an overall friendly fashion ("Dude, don't be such a grognard and stop fantasizing about Erol Otus").

So like many words it depends upon usage and, as this thread proves, there is no set definition of grognard (although munchkin and fanboy are a bit more defined). Not only that but there is a certain degree of relativity.

 

[diaglo]

Thoughts?

i did not serve with napolean in his artillery. but i did play wargames with him and his men.

diaglo "wargamer grognard" Ooi

 

[Cadfan]

Well I am one of them and fall in to the right age bracket.
To contradict Cadfan's ealier post I think 4e is the coolest D&D evar

Then you're not a grognard, are you. Its a state of mind, not an age bracket.

...these new smileys kind of creep me out. The happy ones seem... TOO happy.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Then you're not a grognard, are you. Its a state of mind, not an age bracket.

...these new smileys kind of creep me out. The happy ones seem... TOO happy.

Well by Umbran's definition I am, though not by yours. Though by yours it could depend on topic. I am not all sure that Memoir44 is a wargame, and don't get me started on Axis and Allies.

As for the smileys, I kinda like them. They should look mad. Afterall we are here arguing (at least on other threads) on the simulationism or versimillitude of elves and tieflings.

 

[diaglo]

A true grognard wouldn't be RPGing at all, I'd imagine.

quoted for truth.

sadly, OD&D(1974) offered all the things i wanted for my Chainmail (1971) campaign.

 

[haakon1]

On ENWorld:

1) Someone who started rpging in the early days of the hobby. I'm a purist in that I think it has to be the 70s, but I've seen some who started in the early 80s call themselves grognards. I began gaming in '82 but I don't self-identify as a grognard.
2) A fan of a previous edition of an rpg, usually D&D. You see quite a few references to 3e grognards but there's an awareness that it's a strange usage as 3e only became a previous edition very recently.
3) Someone who hates everything published after 1985. Unless it's an exact copy of something published prior to 1985, such as Hackmaster.

Not used on ENWorld:
4) A wargamer.
5) A member of Napoleon's Old Guard.

#5 is the original meaning.
#4 is a cute derivative of #5, as war gaming's most popular setting is Napoleonics
#1 comes from #4, as early D&D sprung from war gaming
#2 comes from #1, as old schoolers are old schoolers
#3 is just repeating #2 in a pejorative way, IMHO.

Keys to grognarditude, IMHO:
-- Don't like 4e, especially the "non-Gygaxian" stuff like Dragonborn and Tieflings
-- Can identify a halberd-ish thing versus a glaive-ish thing by sight, from real historical artifacts or illustrations, and actually cares about this sort of thing.
-- Usually interested in real world history, real world mythology, and classic fantasy (Tolkien, CS Lewis, Conan, etc.)
-- Usually a fan of Gygax & Greyhawk, or perhaps Forgotten Realms, or the City State of Invincible Overlord and other pre-3e settings
-- Tend to care about fluff (all of the above) more than mechanics, and to want the mechanics to reflect some reality outside the game (not just game balance, "fun", etc.)

Orius said:
<<I remember in a previous discussion here, Gary said his definition of grognard was someone who's been consistently playing RPGs for 10+ years.>>

That works for me too.

As for "grognard" being an insult, that's not how I hear it at all. I'm proud of it/aspire to be more like it.

 

[PaulofCthulhu]

Grognards - still big fans of 'Dice Chits'!

Dice Chits June 2008

 

[Entropi]

#4 is a cute derivative of #5, as war gaming's most popular setting is Napoleonics

Not even close.

Grognard is a wargamer term that has been co-opted and twisted by RPGers until it has lost any specific meaning with regard to RPGs. In wargaming, it still refers to a long-time avid wargamer - somebody who has made wargaming their lifelong hobby.

And WWII is far and away the most popular era for wargames, followed by the American Civil War.