Forked Thread: "The Death of the Imagination" re: World of Warcraft

[Mercurius]

To the OP:

The 1,000's of Fanfics about WOW and the 1000's of fan art about WOW would be evidence against your point that it supresses imaginations.

You can also add to that the 1000's of forum threads discussin WOW Lore or even RPG threads.

Actually WOW delivers the fantasy genere to people who would otherwise would not ever read a fantasy novel. heck WOW even compells people to read up on WOW lore, and entices people to read its onw WOW novels.

Even in game, the actual storyline compells imagination and a sense of wonder.

With those things in mind I would not dare say WOW supresses imagination any more than an actual fantasy/sci-fi novel or comic book.

A couple points by way of reply. First of all, "suppresses" is a matter of degree. I believe, and have written in this post, that I don't think the imagination can be "fully suppressed" or outright slain, or at least I hope not. A lot of folks seem to be missing this, thinking I am saying "absolute death."

Secondly, I don't want to insult anyone but I see fan-art and fan-fic as being on the lower scale of imagination. Not all works of imagination are created equal.

As to your last point, it is simple: WoW (the CRPG) creates images for you while novels do not. When you read a novel your mind has to work to create images, thus the imaginative "muscle" is exercised. If that muscle is not excercised, or rather, to whatever degree it is not exercised, it will lose strength and capacity. That's not a belief or empty assertion, it is simple logic (once again: "use it or lose it").

All that said, I think you make a good point in your third and fourth lines. If WoW introduces people to more creative endeavors and "compels wonder," great. I am not saying it is completely without benefit or artistry.

 

[hong]

The problem, Christopher, is that I'm not making an "argument" but expressing an opinion.

Yes, and that opinion is dumb.

 

[Mercurius]

I'll say two things relevant to this conversation, based on my experiences only.

I have played WoW a lot. Maybe not as much as some, but in hindsight, certainly more than I should. What I have found is that playing a game like WoW is definitely a time sink (I have to grind rep with X faction to get Y item I want so I can survive in Z dungeon, so I can get an item to replace Y). This is by design. Blizzard wants people to play (and keep paying to play). I don't have a problem with this concept, but the first step in dealing with this design structure is to recognize it exists. If you are not willing to accept that WoW is a huge time sink, you've got a problem.

Second, and this is going to vary from person to person, but as a creative person, I find it easier to play WoW than to work on something creative. With WoW, I can sit back and kill stuff click click click with no real in-depth thought involved. If I have to be creative - work on a D&D campaign, write fiction, etc - it's hard work. When I face an internal resistance to being creative, a game like WoW is an easy escape.

None of the foregoing is to say no one should play WoW, or that WoW is designed to sap the imagination. I think maybe the OP has missed what is really going on. As you continue to play WoW (or similar games) more and more, it draws you in, and you have to fight off the urge to keep playing and do other things in your life. It's easier to play WoW than to be creative.

Good insights, Insight (you must be sick of that). Yet I did not miss that and agree with you and find the same for me with regards to the, ahem, internet: it is easier, and more instantly gratifying, than being creative, facing that Dreaded Empty Page!

I did mention this at some point, or should have. But I am also saying something that the actual medium effects imagination, not just the "timesink."

 

[Mercurius]

Yes, and that opinion is dumb.

Cute. Like Good, yes?

 

[hong]

Cute. Like Good, yes?

... no, still dumb.

 

[Mercurius]

Then stop phrasing stuff as facts. Your posts are littered with assertions phrased as incontrovertible facts. Phrasing things more clearly as opinion would go a long way toward not having an argument, but a discussion instead.

What internet rule # is this? #3? If we all needed to differentiate what we said as opinion vs. fact, just about every sentence would start with "IMO." I mean, shouldn't you have written "IMO your posts are..."?

I say, why bother? Is it too much to assume that whatever someone else is saying is their opinion? From their perspective? As they understand things? I mean, we can extend this to "facts," many of which are hearsay. "IMHO, the facts are..."

This is an internet forum, not a scientific peer review board or a debate club. The conversation can and should be casual.

 

[Mercurius]

... no, still dumb.

You miss my reference, evidently. Spaceballs ("evil will always triumph because good is dumb!").

 

[hong]

You miss my reference, evidently. Spaceballs ("evil will always triumph because good is dumb!").

... no, still dumb.

 

[Oni]

I've logged an embarrasing number of hours on WoW. Several 60's, got up to Marshal Pvping (for those in the know at the end this took like 40 hours a week playing) and after the expanson level two characters from 1 to 70 played them both quite a bit at the cap before I finally quit.

I say all this to show there is some experience behind my statements. I don't think WoW kills the imagination exactly, I could still sit down and paint if I had wanted to. What it killed was my productivity, it took up so much time that I didn't have any left to produce artwork. Ideas are a dime a dozen the time to do anything with them is different as it is finite and one has to choose how their time is spent and when you choose to do one thing you choose not to do another.

Also video games in particular have a feature that is unlike say watching tv and movies, it's the interactivity. This level of commitment, the constant involvment the *required* attention and the physicality of interaction prevents you from doing other things. I draw and paint all the time while watching TV, if you went and looked at my gallery I say 90% of that was done watching TV. You can't do that when playing a game like WoW.

But I will not go so far as to say that these kind of distractions hurt your imagination, but rather only time spent on them is time not spend using your imagination. It's overall more a matter of productivity and time management.

So putting all of your mental resources into a game ties them up with game related things. Of course putting all of you mental resources into table top gaming will just net you more tabletop gaming related thought, you're not going to solve world hunger or cure cancer thinking about being an elf.

I seem to be ranting a bit, but hopefully there might be some interesting thought here for someone.

 

[Hussar]

That's not actually relevant.

First, the plural of "anecdote" isn't "data".
/snip

Best Quote EVAH.

Look, Mercurius, you orignally stated that playing WOW makes you less imaginative. There is zero evidence to support this other than some anonymous person's possible experience. You started all of this by comparing WOW to the "death of imagination". That's pretty strong language.

So, is it really a surprise that people say you're barking up the wrong tree here? There's no evidence to support your claim, not one single study supports this, people have been claiming video games hurt your brain for years, despite this being refuted time and time again.

About the strongest thing you could say is spending time doing any one activity gives you less time to pursue other activities.