Flaming Sphere... again.

[keterys]

Same thing that happens if any other creature or obstacle were in that square.

Even if it's a flaming magma spike beast... nothing. You can't push into an occupied square.

RAW covered - I'd also suggest against changing them like your DM did. It may make sense, but it's _really_ not necessary to increase the damage of flaming sphere. It's pretty awesome, all on its own.

 

[MarkB]

The sphere occupies a square. I wouldn't call it a creature and thus it is not an ally or enemy. It cannot be moved THROUGH other people because people cannot occupy the same space as objects (unless they have phasing).

Agreed. It's a conjuration - an object - so it has no allies, and the wizard can't direct it without expending actions on his turn to do so, so it occupies a square just like a pillar or box would, and neither allies nor enemies of the caster can pass through its square, nor can it pass through other occupied squares.

Fits in with the way the rules work in general, doesn't allow any funky exploits, and is straightforward to adjudicate.

 

[Milambus]

Agreed, from RAW:
Forced movement requires "Clear Path". "Forced movement can't move a target into a space it couldn't enter by walking. The target can't be forced into an obstacle of made to squeeze into a space."

 

[Keenath]

Agreed. It's a conjuration - an object - so it has no allies

I agree. Allies can't go through it, any more than allies can pass through a Wall of Ice (also a conjuration that occupies squares). Magical effects don't move aside for allies unless it says they do (or if it says the thing acts like a creature, which a flaming sphere doesn't).

Fits in with the way the rules work in general, doesn't allow any funky exploits, and is straightforward to adjudicate.

The easiest answer is probably the best one!

 

[Infiniti2000]

In our game tonight, there was a 10ft-wide ledge (10ft above the caster) and a goblin sharpshooter was hidden up there in one of the two squares. The Wizard didn't know which one and picked one at random to place his Flaming Sphere.

1. Can he place the sphere in that square, seeing as how it has "cover"?
2. If that square has the goblin, what happens then?

Let's say the Wizard creates the sphere and it's active. If the Wizard loses line of effect to the sphere:

3. Does the sphere terminate?
4. Assuming it doesn't at least immediately terminate, can the Wizard sustain the sphere without line of effect?

Thanks for any answers.

 

[Revinor]

Bit unrelated, but still about flaming sphere.

Is damage for being next to it at start of round (1d4+int) modified by:

- magic implement ?
- feats which add for fire damage ?

 

[Squire James]

Some unofficial answers to the questions in two previous posts.

1. If something is hidden or invisible in a square targeted as a Flaming Sphere location, the sphere will appear in a random adjacent square visible to the caster. If this is not possible, the spell fails to activate and is not expended. The wizard will know it failed because of targeting restictions, so the square is indeed occupied by something (probably a hidden or invisible creature).

2. If the wizard loses line of effect to the sphere, he cannot sustain it. He can lose sight of it for a moment (like during movement), but he must be in range and have line of effect at the time he tries to sustain the effect.

3. Since damage-causing conjurations use the wizard's ability scores for damage, they also use implement and feat bonuses to attacks and damage if applicable. Fire wizards conjure brighter flames. If the wizard readies a different implement, the effects of the new implement override the effects of the old one.

 

[Revinor]

3. Since damage-causing conjurations use the wizard's ability scores for damage, they also use implement and feat bonuses to attacks and damage if applicable.

Well, Ranger's Twin Strike is not using ability score, but it does add up weapon and feat bonuses. Cleave second effect is using ability score, but does not add any feat nor weapon bonuses.

 

[Mal Malenkirk]

So when a wizard moves the flaming sphere around the battlefield, he can move it over people and damage everyone in its path?

No. It specifically states that you take damage if start your turn adjacent to the sphere.

If people need to rationalize why you take no damage while just moving through (or being moved through), think of the indian fakirs walking over hot coal. You think it take amazing power of concentration to do that? The truth is absolutely every human being can do it. A physic professor demonstrated it with his class.

The skin is a reasonably good insulant. There is a temperature range that can horriby burn a human body if but to which you can be exposed for a brief moment and the skin will be able to protect you and dissipate it if the contact is brief enough. The coal over which the fakir is walking is one example. You don't want to lie in it, but you can walk over it as long as you never stop. Let's imagine the heat of the sphere is another example. You need a prolonged exposure to get hurt.

Of course, 'it's magic' also work.

In either case, under no circumstances allow the sphere to do more damage then it already does with its attacks and with hurting people who starts their round adjacent to hit. And I say this as a wizard players who uses flame sphere. It's strong enough as it is. If we empowered it, I'd fear from safety. I don't like the way the DM looks at me when I light up this baby.

 

[Sonyuu]

Doubts in my game.

So, I have this situation in my game table: One of my players have created an eladrin wizard, and he likes fire spells, so he have chosen flaming sphere as his daily spell without a second thought.

When he cast this spell, he goes for the same procedure always: standard action for attack with the sphere, movement action to move the sphere closer to any surviving foes, and minor action to sustain the bloody sphere for the rest of the encounter!

In his next turn, he says that since he is not going to cast another spell, nothing stops him to attack AGAIN with the sphere, then move it with his movement action to wreck more havoc among the poor monsters, and keep his remaining minor action to do whatever necessary actions that he sees fit to the present situation (and since he's always behind the frontline, it is almost used for nothing).

The worst part is that his argument makes PERFECT sense to me, so I let him do his little onslaught over the grid! Now I'm starting to think that I may have been wrong in the first place to give permission to the eladrin make use of the flaming sphere in that way.

Am I wrong and he's really doing all of this "by the rules" or I just fell for a smart player's logic?