Homebrew Poisons

[Tequila Sunrise]

One of the players in my upcoming swashbuckling campaign wants to use poison, which I find very appropriate given that the character is a rogue of the Raven Queen. I checked out the poisons in the DMG and frankly they suck. Once again the designers discourage PCs from using poison by making them prohibitively expensive and only mildly useful. They're better than 3e poisons, but not by much. Anyway I came up with the following rules to make poison a simple, different and balanced character option. They have awesome effects, but a PC can only afford about five doses per adventure which means that he/she has to ration the doses out to about one dose per two encounters. So my poisons are basically every-other-encounter powers.

So let me know what you think, particularly concerning the level-appropriateness of the poison effects. The thing I'm really not yet familiar with in 4e is the scale of status effects. And if you can think of better names for them, feel free to drop them.

Poison Use: See page 50-51 of the DMG. The poisons on page 51 are replaced by the poisons described here.
Poison Cost: One dose of poison costs an amount equal to the sale price of a magical item of the poison’s level.
Making Poison: Characters trained in the use of poison (a character history requirement, rather than a mechanical requirement) can make poisons of their level or lower by spending the appropriate cash. The DM may bar a character from making poisons in inappropriate circumstances, such as if the character is in an alien environment devoid of ingredients or if the character has no access to poison making tools.

Deadly Poison
Poison Level: 1 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: Deal ongoing poison damage according to the chart below (save ends).
Aftereffect: Deal ongoing poison damage according to the chart below (save ends).
Level Hit Aftereffect
1-5 5 5
6-10 10 5
11-15 15 10
16-20 20 10
21-25 25 15
26-30 30 15

Slow Poison
Poison Level: 1 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is immobilized (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is slowed (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains immobilized until the end of the encounter.

Weakness Poison
Poison Level: 1 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is weakened and dazed (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is weakened (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains weakened and dazed until the end of the encounter.

Paralytic Poison
Poison Level: 11 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is stunned (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is immobilized (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains stunned until the end of the encounter.

Sleep Poison
Poison Level: 21 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is unconscious (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is weakened (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains unconscious until the end of the encounter.

TS

 

[Syrsuro]

Pedantic point: The rule in 4E is that you always round down so for the sake of consistency you ought to increase the attack bonus for each poison by one and round down instead of rounding up.

This is not, in any way, a commentary on the virtues of the poisons themselves as I have not yet formed an opinion. Although I would probably go with the Alchemist feat in AV rather than create your own means to create them.

Carl

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

This is not, in any way, a commentary on the virtues of the poisons themselves as I have not yet formed an opinion. Although I would probably go with the Alchemist feat in AV rather than create your own means to create them.

I appreciate the suggestion, but two new lame poisons and an unnecessary craft mechanic do not pique my interest enough to shell out thirty bucks for a splatbook.

TS

 

[Stalker0]

Generally I like the aftereffects of the poisons. Basically its a way to keep the duration useful enough that the poison always has an effect. However, I think your effects that last the entire encounter are way too strong. Weakened the entire encounter?! Might as well be dead for all the damage you will do.

I would leave in the aftereffects and drop the whole encounter effects, and with that you'll have something solid here.

 

[eloquentaction]

One of the players in my upcoming swashbuckling campaign wants to use poison, which I find very appropriate given that the character is a rogue of the Raven Queen. I checked out the poisons in the DMG and frankly they suck. Once again the designers discourage PCs from using poison by making them prohibitively expensive and only mildly useful. They're better than 3e poisons, but not by much. Anyway I came up with the following rules to make poison a simple, different and balanced character option. They have awesome effects, but a PC can only afford about five doses per adventure which means that he/she has to ration the doses out to about one dose per two encounters. So my poisons are basically every-other-encounter powers.

So let me know what you think, particularly concerning the level-appropriateness of the poison effects. The thing I'm really not yet familiar with in 4e is the scale of status effects. And if you can think of better names for them, feel free to drop them.

Poison Use: See page 50-51 of the DMG. The poisons on page 51 are replaced by the poisons described here.
Poison Cost: One dose of poison costs an amount equal to the sale price of a magical item of the poison’s level.
Making Poison: Characters trained in the use of poison (a character history requirement, rather than a mechanical requirement) can make poisons of their level or lower by spending the appropriate cash. The DM may bar a character from making poisons in inappropriate circumstances, such as if the character is in an alien environment devoid of ingredients or if the character has no access to poison making tools.

Deadly Poison
Poison Level: 1 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: Deal ongoing poison damage according to the chart below (save ends).
Aftereffect: Deal ongoing poison damage according to the chart below (save ends).
Level Hit Aftereffect
1-5 5 5
6-10 10 5
11-15 15 10
16-20 20 10
21-25 25 15
26-30 30 15

Slow Poison
Poison Level: 1 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is immobilized (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is slowed (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains immobilized until the end of the encounter.

Weakness Poison
Poison Level: 1 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is weakened and dazed (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is weakened (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains weakened and dazed until the end of the encounter.

Paralytic Poison
Poison Level: 11 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is stunned (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is immobilized (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains stunned until the end of the encounter.

Sleep Poison
Poison Level: 21 +
Attack: 3 + (4/5 poison level; round up) vs. Fortitude
Hit: The target is unconscious (save ends).
Aftereffect: The target is weakened (save ends).
Special: If the target fails its save against this poison’s first effect, the target remains unconscious until the end of the encounter.

TS

You might (or might not) be interested in the poisons /diseases I've taken from the Monsters in the MM. I'm adding them to my cardset and should be releasing them here in the next few days.

There are poisons with sleep, immobilization, weak and other effects. I'm sure you can scale them down (or up) to fit your needs.

-- Hirahito

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Generally I like the aftereffects of the poisons. Basically its a way to keep the duration useful enough that the poison always has an effect. However, I think your effects that last the entire encounter are way too strong. Weakened the entire encounter?! Might as well be dead for all the damage you will do.

I would leave in the aftereffects and drop the whole encounter effects, and with that you'll have something solid here.

I don't want my poisons to be overpowered, but it's really hard for me to rationalize poisons that last a mere two likely rounds before being totally recovered from, even in a game as unrealistic as 4e. What do you think of a mechanic like this: "each time you fail a save against this poison's first effect, all further saves against that same effect take a cumulative -1 penalty. (Extra saves gained from powers do not incur this penalty.)"?

TS

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

You might (or might not) be interested in the poisons /diseases I've taken from the Monsters in the MM. I'm adding them to my cardset and should be releasing them here in the next few days.

There are poisons with sleep, immobilization, weak and other effects. I'm sure you can scale them down (or up) to fit your needs.

-- Hirahito

Well it wouldn't hurt to take a look.

TS

 

[Kordeth]

Here's a thought: Why not unify poisons and diseases under the same system? Yes, it means you have to ditch the ongoing poison damage effect from ordinary poison (although I would keep poison as a damage type and probably keep most monster poison attacks as simple ongoing damage). The disease track gives you a lot of leeway to add lingering effects and give poison more of a bite than "last a mere two rounds."

You could further subdivide poisons into fast-acting (check for improvement/worsening after every short rest) or slow-acting (check after every extended rest), maybe even more rare and powerful poisons that require a check every turn.

Just looking at the effects of the few sample diseases in the DMG, you've got:

- Loss of healing surges
- blindness
- blurred vision
- reduced healing
- unhealable damage
- loss of action points
- slow
- damage vulnerability
- ongoing damage

All sorts of fun, nasty things to throw at the bad guys (or the good guys).

 

[Stalker0]

I don't want my poisons to be overpowered, but it's really hard for me to rationalize poisons that last a mere two likely rounds before being totally recovered from, even in a game as unrealistic as 4e.

Considering you have about a 50% chance of failing the save, the effects last an average of 4 rounds...which is a lot of encounter time.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Here's a thought: Why not unify poisons and diseases under the same system? Yes, it means you have to ditch the ongoing poison damage effect from ordinary poison (although I would keep poison as a damage type and probably keep most monster poison attacks as simple ongoing damage). The disease track gives you a lot of leeway to add lingering effects and give poison more of a bite than "last a mere two rounds."

That's a very interesting idea!

Considering you have about a 50% chance of failing the save, the effects last an average of 4 rounds...which is a lot of encounter time.

Hm...you've both given me a lot to think about. I don't know how I'll change my poisons, but thanks for the input!

TS