Clark Peterson on 4E

[Korgoth]

1st Edition AD&D - General Discussion - General - Necromancer Games - Message Board - Yuku

I didn't see anyone comment on this. I hope we can discuss Clark's comments without a flamewar.

Basically, Clark says that "[4E] just isn't D&D to me".

His notion is to come up with a '4E that is still D&D'. Myself, I question whether this is necessary. Clark's favorite flavor of D&D is evidently 1E. I call that a respectable choice. So the question is... especially with OSRIC, the OGL and the resurgence of interest in old school gaming... why doesn't Necromancer just do 1E products and get it over with?

I'd be interested in their stuff if it wasn't written for new school systems.

 

[I'm A Banana]

He still says Necro wants to support 4e, of course.

I think the basic idea is that 4e (and 3e and 2e) all have good ideas that one can poach and still remain faithful to what made first edition feel right. Certainly I think the ToH series is a BRILLIANT example of that.

The major weirdness is the GSL (still). It's not that surprising that he thinks 4e has lost a lot of what made the game "special." It's the first time (since maybe 2e) that the game has cut ties with everything that has gone before in an effort for broader populist appeal. It's not like 4e probably can't be forced to accommodate it, though. And in the process, he makes 4e better, which is good for everyone playing.

....if only the GSL wasn't still insane. How long ago was Gen Con? *grumble*

 

[Treebore]

He isn't the only one who thinks 4E is "meh", or missing "something". So if Clark can come up with a way to give 4E whatever is missing he may increase the popularity of 4E. Lets face it, not everyone is falling in love with 4E.

So if he can come up with stuff that helps even more people play 4E, that is a good thing. Who knows, maybe Necromancer will be the "Malhavoc" of 4E.

 

[Alzrius]

Clark's favorite flavor of D&D is evidently 1E. I call that a respectable choice. So the question is... especially with OSRIC, the OGL and the resurgence of interest in old school gaming... why doesn't Necromancer just do 1E products and get it over with?

Mostly because Clark believes very strongly in supporting D&D unto itself, which means supporting the "active" edition. He's always been very firm on this point. He may not like the state of the GSL, and he may not think that the current game feels like D&D, but he still wants to support it. Hence, a variant that uses the current edition, but changes it enough to feel like D&D again.

I'm quite interested to see what he comes up with. Now the trick will be whether or not the revised GSL (if that happens) lets him do that.

 

[Fallen Seraph]

I don't have much to say besides that is a very admirable view, to put the support of the community and D&D in general infront of personal opinion.

 

[Terramotus]

I don't have much to say besides that is a very admirable view, to put the support of the community and D&D in general infront of personal opinion.

I'm pretty sure the miniscule market for 1E material has something to do with it as well. 3rd party material will always sell to a fraction of the total market. The total market for 1E material is vastly smaller than 4E, as is, I'm sure the 3E market.

Besides that, even if we grant a market for older editions being large enough to support a publisher, how many of those people still playing the other editions (3E excepted) will still be looking for new product on the shelves?

 

[cougent]

He isn't the only one who thinks 4E is "meh", or missing "something". So if Clark can come up with a way to give 4E whatever is missing he may increase the popularity of 4E. Lets face it, not everyone is falling in love with 4E.

So if he can come up with stuff that helps even more people play 4E, that is a good thing. Who knows, maybe Necromancer will be the "Malhavoc" of 4E.

THIS!

And Clark's post as well pretty much sum up my feelings.

I have no hatred of 4E, but no love for it either. As it exists now, I won't be going to it. If Necro writes a variant that I like then I might down the road.

 

[Stalker0]

I can respect positions like this, though in the end I think they are pointless unless they carry with them some "harder" evidence.

Someone can tell me "4e doesn't feel like dnd". But without a why, its hard to find a fix...unless the fix is to return to the "true dnd" and then create a new version from there.

 

[Arawn76]

As I said on the Necro boards I'm a little sad he's going this route. I was looking forward to a 4E with 1E feel product line from Clark.

Not his fault mind Wotc's dicking around has probably put many projects on back burner or in the reject bin.

I'll have a look at what he produces but in all honesty I can't see any reason to buy a D&D clone. I did that with Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed and a handful of others and all I did was mine them for ideas. They just had too little product support and not enough real variation to warrant playing them over the original.

And Vancian magic

 

[TheSleepyKing]

I'd be very interested to check it out if it does happen (though I can't forsee WoTC opening up the GSL to let Necromancer do anything of the sort). I'd love to see a system that keeps most of the core of 4e, but chucks out the power system and replaces it with separate subsystems for each class, just as we had in 3.x and now Pathfinder. It sounds a little like that's what Clark is getting at (at least when it comes to wizards).
I also agree with Clark in that it would be nice to see the end of the relentless focus on battlemat manoeuvre and a return to 'feet' rather than 'squares'.
In any case, I'm all for having more options, and Necro has a pretty good history at putting out the kinds of products I like. So bring it on!