1E and 4E are similar? Really? (Forked from: 1E Resurgence?)

[Ourph]

I feel as if it's the DM's role to make decisions for non-player characters.

Since it's the DM's job to adjudicate what effect an Intimidate skill check has on an NPC, I'd say the 4e rules agree with you.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Since it's the DM's job to adjudicate what effect an Intimidate skill check has on an NPC, I'd say the 4e rules agree with you.

QFT. If the enemy the character rolled an Intimidate check on is crazy, Chuck Norris, or both, I don't care what the dice said. It isn't happening.

 

[ExploderWizard]

QFT. If the enemy the character rolled an Intimidate check on is crazy, Chuck Norris, or both, I don't care what the dice said. It isn't happening.

Thats not in any way a fair assessment. Chuck Norris is a TPK for ANY party

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Thats not in any way a fair assessment. Chuck Norris is a TPK for ANY party

Fair or not, Chuck Norris is beyond the scope of an intimidate check.

 

[D'karr]

Fair or not, Chuck Norris is beyond the scope of an intimidate check.

Chuck Norris is actually beyond the scope of the XP rating system.

 

[Henry]

Players who roll intimidate checks against Chuck Norris have to rip up their character sheets. No save.

 

[Korgoth]

Players who roll intimidate checks against Chuck Norris have to rip up their character sheets. No save.

True. Any attempt to intimidate Chuck Norris provokes an immediate Ranged Roundhouse Kick of Opportunity, line of sight not required. Chuck Norris roundhouse kicks hit on any rolled positive integer and do infinite damage.

 

[malraux]

Can Chuck Norris create a DC so high, even he cannot beat it?

 

[Grimstaff]

Oh, I certainly don't play 4e regularly. I've leafed through someone else's copy of the rules, and I remember how I felt about them--nonplussed and confused that this was somehow "D&D".

I've tried not to rant, and I've tried to use lots of first person language to emphasize this is how *I* feel.

I'm not being judgmental about 4e players.

But for me, this game they play (regardless of its name) does not resemble what I understand by "D&D".

I certainly won't argue 1E feel with you - your excellent OSRIC definitely proves you "get" it. I'm certain you wouldn't have gained so much insight into the "soul" of the game without extensive play experience, and I'm sure you'd agree a cursory glance through the 1E books would not have given you that experience.

Suffice to say, I certainly wouldn't have thought 4E would offer this kind of experience back when the first previews started leaking. Also, I could certainly pull dozens of things out of the books that are emphatically not old-school in any way shape or form.

But there is something during 4E gameplay that takes me back to those glory days of the early eighties. Something that not even the marvelously old-school 3.5 mods from Necro and Goodman were able to capture as thoroughly, so I can only assume that the designers got something right. At least for me and many others.

 

[Shazman]

Your observations, of course, are all accurate. However, I find them to be superficial, such that they do not make the game play feel like 1e in the slightest. I just don't see how movement in inches, or exactly which book a weapon comes from, is meaningful in terms of game feel.

The at-will/encounter/daily powers mechanics, the detailed reliance on positioning and movement, the balance of classes - all of these steer the game far, far away from having a 1e feel for me and my group.

YMMV, of course.

Now, this I can agree with. I've played 2nd edition, 3.0, 3.5, and 4th edition. I played 1e a few times, but I don't remember much about it. I do know that 4e absolutely doesn't play at all like 2nd edition, 3.0, or 3.5. I find it very difficult to believe that it plays at all like 1e either. It shares most in common with 3.0/3.5 (feats, d20 mechanic, skills, etc.) and it still has a completely different feel. I don't see how monsters lasting a few round longer (more like 8-10 rounds longer in 4E) or resting in between fights (We did that in 3.0/3.5 too. That's where the CLW wands got a lot of use.) or counting in "inches" makes 4E feel like 1E. I know this is really subjective, but I begin to wonder if people aren't seeing what they want to see regarding the similarities between these two vastly different systems.