To all D&D fans - what are the top 3 specific changes 4e needs in your opinion

[Fifth Element]

(4) Fluff and crunch must match. If you can damage someone on a "miss", I suggest that you stop calling it a miss. If a character isn't actually wounded when hit, stop calling it "damage". If there was never actually damage, don't call it "healing".

I agree with this, though I don't think it's a big deal. But ultimately we have to blame Mr. Gygax for this, who used all the same terminology, then proceeded to describe hit points as representing morale, luck, skill in battle, etc.

And if we're suggesting things to name-change, I'd suggest "healing surge", even if you keep the term "healing" in general.

 

[Raven Crowking]

I agree with this, though I don't think it's a big deal. But ultimately we have to blame Mr. Gygax for this, who used all the same terminology, then proceeded to describe hit points as representing morale, luck, skill in battle, etc.

So long as we understand that "hit points" doesn't mean "wounds", and that each time "damage" is done, some actual physical damage has been done, even if just a scratch.

Assuming, of course, that we are actually concerned with what Mr. Gygax wrote, and not simply taking the opportunity to blame him for 4e's woes.


RC

 

[billd91]

1) Monsters - a decent monster reference. One with support for more mundane creatures for lower-level or low-fantasy play, more common monsters rather than weirdos like the balhannoth (whatever that is), and more continuity with previous editions (like charming dryads instead of woody monsters, good unicorns, and good storm giants).

2) Martial powers grouped into trees commonly available to martial-oriented characters so I can provide the mix for my fighting style rather than do it by class selection. Let the class selection determine my non-combat skills if we're going to "silo" things off there's no reason for martial power selection to have anything to do with skill selection and can use completely different mechanics.

3) No teleporting elves. No inherent teleport for any PC without paying for it by taking a power.

 

[doctorhook]

4) Bring back non standard vision, even if only for non player races.
(Drow that can't see in the dark? What is this heresy?)

...But 4E Drow do have darkvision, according the FRPG...

 

[MerricB]

Top four changes needed, and why, IMHO:

(1) Return to an attrition-based model. The attrition-based model looks at an adventure setting as a whole, and each encounter as meaningful predominantly in terms of how it affects overall attrition. This means that a short, easy fight that costs you something tangible is still meaningful. It also means that every fight doesn't have to last 40+ minutes in order to seem worthwhile.

4e is an attrition-based model. Healing surges are extremely limited. Biggest factor in a party stopping that I've seen.

What it doesn't have is attrition-between-days; extended rests may well be too good; what would it be like if you only gained back 1/4 of your healing surges (FRU) with every extended rest?

Cheers!

 

[pukunui]

What happened to all that cool art in the preview books? The ones that DID inspire everyone, that got everyone clamouring for wallpaper images? I look back at some of those, and then look at what's actually in the finished books, and I think WTH?

Quite a bit of that art has actually found its way into the books, believe it or not. For instance, my favorite piece - the one of the female elf warlock conducting a ritual in a swampy forest area - is now one of the chapter headers in the DMG.

A lot of the preview character sketches and things are in various places as well.

I imagine that some of the more planar pieces will reappear in the upcoming Manual of the Planes.



My complaint, though, is the fact that much of the content mentioned in the preview books did not make it into the final product. I'm finding that the actual 4e game is a pale shadow of the 4e that WotC marketed to us, both via the two preview books and the various online items ... which is, of course, very disappointing. I don't think they should have been previewing the game while they were still making major changes to it. The way WotC marketed 4e (and continues to market it) is another of my beefs actually ...

 

[Darrin Drader]

I've played 4E and prefer 3rd and 1st editions (though I'm leaning heavily towards Castles and Crusades as the ultimate "light" edition). I think the areas I would change have already been addressed in this thread. What 4E does right, in my opinion, are the following:

1. 1/2 level + ability modifier for most important character related values.

2. Easy monster and NPC leveling up and down.

3. Encounter building guidelines (although I'm not a fan of how rigidly codified this is)

4. The DMG

It would be an interesting experiment to combine those aspects of 4th edition with the rest of 3.5 while placing a limit on buffs and see how it plays. I suspect that would be my "ultimate edition" of D&D.

 

[yesnomu]

My picks, as a 4e fan:

1) More experimentation, with the powers, class roles, everything. Things like giving Barbarians multiple ways to spend their rages, or artificers using machines with their own defenses and HP. The best part of any game is when the creators try out new and daring things to stretch the system. I can't wait to see the Bo9S of 4e, I think it's going to be fantastic.

2) Clarify HP and healing to stop the whining. It's all abstract, so take out all references to actual wounds and damage. I don't have a problem with the system as-is, but I'm sick of people talking about it.

3) Monsters that get much more dangerous when hurt badly. If the PCs are afraid for their lives near the end of combats, they won't get bored! A cornered fox, etc. etc.

EDIT: Forgot something: employ a dedicated "balance-checker." Have them read through all crunch materials put out, and flag the stuff that seems too good. Every day, have them make the most broken member of a class they can, and nerf whatever makes them so powerful. Balance ought to be the #1 priority. Blizzard are the guys to emulate here, I want friggin' Starcraft levels of balance and differentiation.

 

[Ahglock]

1. more rituals, and less ridiculously expensive.

2. bring back the lost magic, summing, necromancy, and some save or dies.(does not have to be a single save to die, does not have to actually be a save can be like power word kill with a HP comparison)

3. get rid of per encounter/dailies or have in combat recharging mechanics. I liked the idea i read earlier where powers migrated to at will as the character advanced.

4. I want much more dramatic marital powers to be common at paragon+tiers. I wanted people running across water, smashing down stone walls with there fist. Anime, naruto level fighting skills.

 

[pukunui]

3. get rid of per encounter/dailies or have in combat recharging mechanics.

I actually tried this one session. I let the players attempt to recharge spent encounters or dailies. At the beginning of their turn, they could roll a d6. If they were trying to recharge an encounter, it would recharge on or . If they wanted a daily, it only recharged on a . They then had to use the recharged power that turn or it would be lost. As crazy as it seemed, it was fun and didn't seem to break the game in the slightest.