I'm going to run a 1e game

[Chainsaw]

Thanks Merric. That's helpful.

By the way, I have a feeling I may have unintentionally asked a more complicated question than I intended. We both say melee, but I think I misspoke. You're referring to toe-to-toe (adjacent squares, within charging distance) fighting, right? Whereas I'm imagining simply being in the same room as the fight (magic-user in the rear somewhere).

When a magic-user is toe-to-toe with a fighter, I agree that his spells would likely be interrupted more often than not - the fighter's slashing, the magic-user's dancing about this way and that, dodging and trying to wiggle fingers and arms etc. I don't really need an intricate sytem to describe this or create acceptance among my players. They won't ever get their magic-users toe-to-toe with a fighter and expect to be casting spells. They usually hang safely in the back somewhere, waiting to cast their spell. In this latter situation, losing initiative doesn't necessarily mean losing the spell, no? Unless of course, there's an archer as TFoster points out -

 

[MerricB]

Thanks Merric. That's helpful.

By the way, I have a feeling I may have unintentionally asked a more complicated question than I intended. We both say melee, but I think I misspoke. You're referring to toe-to-toe (adjacent squares, within charging distance) fighting, right? Whereas I'm imagining simply being in the same room as the fight (magic-user in the rear somewhere).

I've accounted to that in the initiative example above; if a magic-user is not hit, he won't lose the spell.

Cheers!

 

[Chainsaw]

Ah, OK, gotcha. Thanks again.

 

[Obryn]

Note that this rule only applies if the enemies begin the round not already in melee with the spell-caster. If they are already engaged then (BTB) you use a different rule instead -- the one where the weapon speed factor is subtracted from the losing side's initiative die roll and the absolute value of that number is compared to the casting time. Yeah, it's ugly.

I read this, and I plan on ignoring the hell out of this rule.

I will ignore it so hard it will disappear from the page of my book.

Here's how I'll be running it after much consideration:

(1) Declare actions.
(2) Roll for Initiative. You want to roll low; this determines the segment on which your group acts. If you have a missile weapon, deduct your Reaction Adjustment, to a minimum of 1. (The roll-high-and-swap method makes it tough if there's a 3-group combat, and also adds unnecessary confusion.)
(3) If you're casting a spell, it will go off at the end of the segment listed as its casting time. Any attacks on or before that segment could disrupt it.
(4) Weapon speed factor breaks ties. Unarmed attacks, including most monster attacks, have a speed factor of 1 unless I judge otherwise.
(5) None of the multiple-attacks-for-fast-weapons-on-simo stuff.
(6) In any charge situation, disregard initiative when determining first strike. The longer weapon strikes first.

(edit: Basically, what MerricB posted above... It seems fairly simple and intuitive to me!)

-O

 

[ExploderWizard]

I read this, and I plan on ignoring the hell out of this rule.

I will ignore it so hard it will disappear from the page of my book.

Here's how I'll be running it after much consideration:

(1) Declare actions.
(2) Roll for Initiative. You want to roll low; this determines the segment on which your group acts. If you have a missile weapon, deduct your Reaction Adjustment, to a minimum of 1. (The roll-high-and-swap method makes it tough if there's a 3-group combat, and also adds unnecessary confusion.)
(3) If you're casting a spell, it will go off at the end of the segment listed as its casting time. Any attacks on or before that segment could disrupt it.
(4) Weapon speed factor breaks ties. Unarmed attacks, including most monster attacks, have a speed factor of 1 unless I judge otherwise.
(5) None of the multiple-attacks-for-fast-weapons-on-simo stuff.

-O

Weapon speed factors break ties. Does this mean that they are added to the roll just like casting times? If not then all weapons will be faster than the quickest spell.

 

[Obryn]

Weapon speed factors break ties. Does this mean that they are added to the roll just like casting times? If not then all weapons will be faster than the quickest spell.

In what I just wrote, neither is added to the die roll. The weapon-user attacks on their initiative roll, and the spellcaster ignores the initiative roll, finishing their spell at the end of the segment indicated in the casting time.

A weapon will interrupt a spell if the wizard is hit by it on or before the segment where the spell is completed. So, spells lose ties if it matters.

so...

Bob the Fighter gets a 4 for Initiative. Wizo is casting a spell with a casting time of 3. Bob will attack after Wizo gets done.

Or, Bob rolls a 2 for Initiative. Wizo starts casting, but Bob gets a chance to attack before Wizo finishes.

Or, Bob gets a 3 for Initiative. Wizo starts casting, and will finish at the end of the third segment. Bob still gets a chance to disrupt the spell, because he is acting on the third segment.

-O

 

[RFisher]

Of course, there’s always the option of ignoring casting times and weapon speeds and just running it classic D&D style. (Which is what my groups did when I played 1e.)

1. Declare actions
2. Roll initiative (d6, high roll wins)
3a. If a caster’s side wins initiative, the caster gets the spell off uninterrupted
3b. If the caster’s side loses initiative and the caster takes damage or fails a save, the spell is spoiled

 

[Obryn]

Of course, there’s always the option of ignoring casting times and weapon speeds and just running it classic D&D style. (Which is what my groups did when I played 1e.)

1. Declare actions
2. Roll initiative (d6, high roll wins)
3a. If a caster’s side wins initiative, the caster gets the spell off uninterrupted
3b. If the caster’s side loses initiative and the caster takes damage or fails a save, the spell is spoiled

That's the next step if this turns out to be too complicated, or if it considerably slows things down.

-O

 

[T. Foster]

Honestly, the best way to handle initiative in AD&D is not to have a detailed system that covers all the possibilities written out in advance because if you do so it's inevitably going to be either too complex or have corner-cases that aren't covered by the system (or, almost certainly, both). It's better to just have a general idea: "each round both sides roll 1d6, the side with the higher roll acts first, ties mean simultaneous action; there are exceptions for special cases," go with that (which will be sufficient at least 75% of the time) and as the special cases arise (someone trying to interrupt a spell-caster, melee at the end of a charge, etc.) make a quick spot-judgment that seems appropriate to the circumstances. That's all the rules in the DMG are -- spot-rulings that seemed appropriate to Gygax (or whoever else collaborated on and developed that section) for situations that come up frequently.

For the first few combats, the first time these special cases arise, you'll probably want to go a little slowly, and then pick up the pace once you've gotten a bit more comfortable and the players know more what to expect. Luckily, the way the game is set up, those first few combats likely won't be very complex and by the time you start getting into the really heavy stuff (like multiple spellcasters on each side) you'll have enough experience under your belt that you'll be able to handle it all without slowing the game down.

 

[Tewligan]

I'm liking the 2e initiative system a lot. We just recently started using it in my 1e game, and it's gone over very well. Clean, and simple enough that we can take the luxury of giving everyone individual initiative rolls, which everyone seems to really enjoy.