AV2 Item power levels

[DracoSuave]

Sorry Draco, but I simply disagree that weapon focus, the way I see it, could be flavored to realistically demonstrate spell prowess.

If a swordmage whacks someone with his sword, sure Im fine with weapon focus affecting that attack, but I don't see how specializing in causing the most damage possible with a weapon (this is how I view Weapon Focus), such as learning how to twist a dagger at the exact right moment, or drive a hammer through a target instead of just into, could affect spell powers.

Again, just my opinion.

Because Weapon Focus represents being able to utilize that weapon to most effect with your own combat style (your powers).

So, an HBO bastard-sword+shield paladin with Weapon Focus knows a different set of skills than a double-sword rogue with Weapon Focus, which is a different skill set than a falchion Swordmage's Weapon Focus.

Sure, they're all using the same weapon, and even the same feat of Weapon Focus (Heavy Blade) but that feat means -completely- different things for each character. It's a different skill set, but the mechanics for each are exactly the same.

The feat represents martial arts technique -in the hands of a fighter.- It represents precision and patience -in the hands of a rogue.- In the hands of a swordmage it represents -actual arcane training-.

So why then can't it work for a wizard, when the difference... 'flavor' isn't even consistant between classes you feel it is intended to work with?

 

[Flipguarder]

So why then can't it work for a wizard, when the difference... 'flavor' isn't even consistant between classes you feel it is intended to work with?

1. You are assuming that I agree with your interpretation of my definition of weapon focus, which I do not. I feel that weapon focus represents training (in whatever class or skill-set you possess) to maximize the damage you cause with the weapon. Personally I don't see it as possible to maximize the damage you cause through spells using a weapon from this kind of training.

2. It can't work, simply because I see it differently than you. It's not that I think your viewpoint is invalid, it is just that I disagree.

 

[Diirk]

To me, a Swordmage not being allowed to use a Weapon Focus in his Sword to increase the damage of his Swordmage attacks that require his Sword and use his Sword as a physical accessory without being Weapon-keyworded is inelegant.

Personally I feel that if a swordmage power is using his sword as a physical accessory, then it SHOULD have the weapon keyword. Problem solved.

The problem with your viewpoint, is that if weapon focus is just using how to learn your 'weapon'(/implement) better to suit your powers, then why can't we take weapon focus: orb, weapon focus: totem etc ?

And if Weapon Focus was meant to work with implement powers, then why did they word Weapon Expertise so that it didn't? (Which then later required them to make Focused Expertise for swordmages monks etc).

Imo, Wizards have just plain screwed up on the whole weapon vs implement thing and created a big mess where sometimes they can be treated the same but sometimes they're different.

 

[Diirk]

This is a level 14 hat that gives an untyped +2 to hit and damage to allies when you grant them a melee basic attack. For a taclord, this is taking the TL's best at-will -- which is -already- being boosted by the item and weapons of their partner...and adding another +2 to hit and damage (and then also affecting any other abilities they have that give out MBAs).

Say what? Is there -any- item that gives a bonus on this level to an at-will (stacking on top of the normal bonuses you seek)? I guess the closest are the Masters Wands, but this is far better (as it should be, being l14..but still).

Almost... The Eagle Eye Goggles are a +1/+2/+3 attack bonus to ranged basic attacks (eg magic missile, eldritch blast, dragonfrost etc as well as the obvious) at level 3/13/23 from memory.

 

[Jhaelen]

Is it just me or are there some really large character power ups inherent in a whole slew of AV2 items?

It's just you - Next!

 

[FireLance]

(b) is pretty much a given. Doing more damage is almost always good, for any class.

I think you've missed out

(c) is far, far better than any other damage-dealing item for the same slot

I think (c) is actually the answer.

Actually, (b) is in relation to what you have to give up in order to use the slot to deal extra damage. For example, some characters may prefer accuracy over damage and use couters of second chances instead.

 

[Ryujin]

Good thing 'defender' isn't a monster role.

And this exists, it's called Barbarian. The neck item doesn't help them very much.

Defender isn't a monster role but there seem to be plenty that mark, so I used the term. Feel free to substitute "soldier" if the term "defender" bothers you.

I haven't yet seen a Barbarian in action, to see whether they can freely charge through the opposition.

 

[WalterKovacs]

Personally I feel that if a swordmage power is using his sword as a physical accessory, then it SHOULD have the weapon keyword. Problem solved.

Except weapon keyword = proficiency bonus added. Implement keyword = proficiency bonus not added.

And if Weapon Focus was meant to work with implement powers, then why did they word Weapon Expertise so that it didn't? (Which then later required them to make Focused Expertise for swordmages monks etc).

They worded Weapon Expertise (and Implement Expertise) differently than Weapon Focus ... so Weapon Focus should work the same? I don't think I can follow the logic there. If anything, they would have to errata Weapon Focus to be like Weapon Expertise if they are meant to work the same. Because it's worded differently, it works differently. Also, attack bonus is better than damage bonus (the various DPR calculations have shown it) and therefore, expertise is more powerful and should be more restricted. Focused Expertise DOES let a swordmage, for example, get the bonus on both weapon and implement powers, but at the cost of further limiting the scope of the feat (you have to pick a SPECIFIC weapon, not a weapon group).

Imo, Wizards have just plain screwed up on the whole weapon vs implement thing and created a big mess where sometimes they can be treated the same but sometimes they're different.

They definitely started with the "staffs are weapons and implements" thing, and went from there with more 'weapons as implements and vice versa' without ever really answering all the questions about which powers and properties of magic weapons apply, etc.

The biggest problem is that weapons get much better "stuff" compared to implements. There is no implement focus, for example, which would make most weapon focus issues moot (outside of cases like the swordmage and monk which would want "focuses focus" or maybe call it expert focus?). Not to mention stuff like flaming weapons and the like. [There is the issue with the cold weapons and how it makes a rogue more likely to use the cold feats that give vulnerability and combat advantage than a wizard does].

 

[WalterKovacs]

Defender isn't a monster role but there seem to be plenty that mark, so I used the term. Feel free to substitute "soldier" if the term "defender" bothers you.

I haven't yet seen a Barbarian in action, to see whether they can freely charge through the opposition.

Through enemies? No. Although there is a weapon I believe in AV2 that allows for that (you become insubstantial on a charge). However, the amulet wouldn't allow you to move through enemy spaces anyway.

Charging past enemies? Sure, they do it all the time. OA's only stop you if it's from a fighter, or it drops you to zero. I've seen a couple monsters who immobilize with thier basic attacks, but outside of those situations, getting hit by an OA isn't going to stop the charging Barbarian.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Actually, (b) is in relation to what you have to give up in order to use the slot to deal extra damage. For example, some characters may prefer accuracy over damage and use couters of second chances instead.

A daily reroll vs every single attack getting extra damage? That had better be a hell of a power you're rerolling.