Big charge damage ideas?

[NewJeffCT]

for a high level evil paladin of Tyranny, what would be some good feats and trinkets he could have to increase his damage on a charging attack?

1) Power Attack feat
2) Leap Attack feat (doubles Power Attack damage on a charge if you make the jump check)
3) Valorous Weapon (+1, also doubles Power Attack damage on a charge)
4) Shock Trooper feat would allow him to trade AC instead of Base Attack Bonus, meaning he would most likely hit when he does charge with a full power attack.

So, if said paladin was 18th level, he could a -18 to hit to get +18 to damage from Power Attack. Leap Attack would double the +18 to +36 and a Valorous Weapon would add another +18 to make it a +54. If the fighter was using a two-handed weapon, it would be another +27, I believe, for a total of +81 to damage - not counting magic and strength.

Anything else in terms of spells/items/feats?

Any other ideas besides a paladin of tyranny? Maybe just a straight fighter? (I already did a Frenzied Berserker, but thought adding in Lion Totem barbarian was too much)

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

A dip into Warblade (or Crusader, if you value their meager cha-based abilities) for some White Raven would be good. The level 1 stance Leading the Charge is +1 damage per initiator level on a charge attack, and benefits all allies in 60 ft to boot! At level 18ish, even with a 1 level dip, that's about +9-10 damage, which multiplies with a lance and/or Rhino's Rush spell (Paladin 1; SpC; swift action; charge does x2 damage). Taking the stance at Warblade/Crusader 1 is enough to qualify for Battle Leader's Charge, a full round action to make a charge w/o provoking AoOs and deal +10 damage (again, can be multiplied).
Depending on how late you go into the adept class (I reccommend doing it last), you might also be able to pick up higher level charge maneuvers. In fact...Crusader might be better since it gets some nice alignment-based charge maneuvers in Devoted Spirit at maneuver level 5. At the very least, even though it does nothing for charging, I strongly advise you to also grab White Raven Tactics, which you qualify for with just Leading the Charge and Battle Leader's Charge (and IL 5, so...as long as you multiclass at ECL 9+). WRT is just soooooooooooo good! Also, not sure if it's RAW, but last game I allowed one of the PCs with it that was a charge build t use it mid-charge, so he could activate it on an ally as he rushed by him. Not sure if you're typically allowed to take a swift action during another action, but it was cool, so I let it go.

EDIT: I can't recall what magic item it was, but there's one to deal (cha bonus) energy damage with your weapon. Again, as a flat number, it multiplies. Barring that, note that the least weapon crystals of energy assault (MIC) can actually be better than the more expensive versions for a charger if he's mounted, since the +1 damage multiplies and can easily end up dealing more than 1d6. It's not much extra damage, but it's so ridiculously cost-efficient (and cheesy) I had to mention it.

 

[NewJeffCT]

A dip into Warblade (or Crusader, if you value their meager cha-based abilities) for some White Raven would be good. The level 1 stance Leading the Charge is +1 damage per initiator level on a charge attack, and benefits all allies in 60 ft to boot! At level 18ish, even with a 1 level dip, that's about +9-10 damage, which multiplies with a lance and/or Rhino's Rush spell (Paladin 1; SpC; swift action; charge does x2 damage). Taking the stance at Warblade/Crusader 1 is enough to qualify for Battle Leader's Charge, a full round action to make a charge w/o provoking AoOs and deal +10 damage (again, can be multiplied).
Depending on how late you go into the adept class (I reccommend doing it last), you might also be able to pick up higher level charge maneuvers. In fact...Crusader might be better since it gets some nice alignment-based charge maneuvers in Devoted Spirit at maneuver level 5. At the very least, even though it does nothing for charging, I strongly advise you to also grab White Raven Tactics, which you qualify for with just Leading the Charge and Battle Leader's Charge (and IL 5, so...as long as you multiclass at ECL 9+). WRT is just soooooooooooo good! Also, not sure if it's RAW, but last game I allowed one of the PCs with it that was a charge build t use it mid-charge, so he could activate it on an ally as he rushed by him. Not sure if you're typically allowed to take a swift action during another action, but it was cool, so I let it go.

EDIT: I can't recall what magic item it was, but there's one to deal (cha bonus) energy damage with your weapon. Again, as a flat number, it multiplies. Barring that, note that the least weapon crystals of energy assault (MIC) can actually be better than the more expensive versions for a charger if he's mounted, since the +1 damage multiplies and can easily end up dealing more than 1d6. It's not much extra damage, but it's so ridiculously cost-efficient (and cheesy) I had to mention it.

Thanks for the fast response - I'd give you XP for it, but it says I must spread some around before giving to you again.

 

[Elethiomel]

I don't think Leap Attack works if you're mounted.

So, here's some ways to do big charge damage with a paladin:
Rhino's Rush, as mentioned.

Divine Might (a flat bonus to damage will get multiplied by the charge). I think (but am not sure) that the Rules Compendium changed Divine Might from a free to a swift action, which would reduce this option quite a bit in power as it wouldn't combine with Rhino's Rush, unless you did something really cheesy like use-activated spurs or Rhino's Rush.

Charging Smite alternate class feature. You lose your mount but get 3x your paladin level as bonus damage when you charge and smite (which gets multiplied by spirited charge, lance, and Rhino's Rush, as it's a flat bonus). You might want to take a feat to get a mount that scales with level (I like Dragon Cohort but that requires the dragon to agree to be a mount; Dragon Steed doesn't scale if you don't have the Special Mount quality, but is pretty good regardless).

The Awesome Smite feat (from Complete Champion, I believe) will let your smite evil attacks ignore concealment.

Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, and either Battle Leader's Charge (with a dip) or Ride-By Attack to avoid AoOs from Huge and larger opponents you're charging are of course compulsory.

Find the Gap (paladin spell from SC) allows you to hit the touch AC of opponents rather than their full AC, which is rather helpful if you don't go for Shock Trooper (and with all these awesome feats even a level 18 character is feat-starved); with STR+CHA+enhanced lance you will be able to hit most creatures' touch AC on not-a-1.

It's worth noting here that unlike most other situations, plusses on the lance are consistently better than energy enhancements for instance, as each + converts directly into 4 damage through a Spirited Charge with a Lance and Rhino's Rush, and also of course increases chance to hit.

It is also useful to have an item or two from the MIC that allows you to reroll attacks in case of "1"s.

Edit: Also the Battle Blessing feat from the same source as Awesome Smite will let you buff faster; it gives you the option to reduce all Paladin spells that normally take a standard action to a swift action.

 

[NewJeffCT]

Thanks Elethiomel - I would again give out XP, but it says I must spread them around more before giving you again.

And, while I've seen some debate on whether or not Leap Attack works when mounted, I would say "no" it does not. But, I think with Spirited Charge, Charging Smite, Leap Attack & Power Attack and maybe one or two more feats, I'm looking at well over +100 to damage.

 

[Elethiomel]

Thanks Elethiomel - I would again give out XP, but it says I must spread them around more before giving you again.

And, while I've seen some debate on whether or not Leap Attack works when mounted, I would say "no" it does not. But, I think with Spirited Charge, Charging Smite, Leap Attack & Power Attack and maybe one or two more feats, I'm looking at well over +100 to damage.

You don't even need Leap Attack for that figure.
I made an ECL 13 paladin (with 32-point-buy, as a minmaxing exercise) that could consistently 1-shot any demon or devil found in the MM (including Balor and Pit Fiend) using some of the techniques discussed above; I have the document at home and can provide the numbers and exact feats used in the exercise once I get off work, if you like.

 

[NewJeffCT]

You don't even need Leap Attack for that figure.
I made an ECL 13 paladin (with 32-point-buy, as a minmaxing exercise) that could consistently 1-shot any demon or devil found in the MM (including Balor and Pit Fiend) using some of the techniques discussed above; I have the document at home and can provide the numbers and exact feats used in the exercise once I get off work, if you like.

Thanks - that would be great if you could do that. Thanks.

So, a mounted lance with Spirited Charge would be tripled right there. 3d8+36 (str of 18 and +4 weapon, x1.5 for 2 handed)
Then, add in Charging Smite to a high level paladin and you're at 3d8+75 or so right there (level 13x3)
Already pretty darn good.

Then, +13 for base Power Attack damage, which becomes +19 for a 2 handed weapon. Tripled due to Spirited Charge and it being a lance, so, you're at +57
Then, a Valorous lance, and the +57 is doubled to +114
So, you're up to 3d8+189 without even casting Rhino's Rush

Cast Rhino's Rush and is the entire +189 doubled to +378, so 6d8+378?

And, if the paladin has added to STR, the damage is improved exponentially.

 

[Runestar]

You could start out as a centaur. This means you are always mounted, and so can benefit from spirited charge (note that races of faerun states you may take spirited charge without having to meet the requirements).

It also means your mount is much less vulnerable to attacks (since you are effectively your own mount).

In addition, when you swap out your mount for charging smite...

And, if the paladin has added to STR, the damage is improved exponentially.

Are you sure the damage is exponential? I thought dnd math explicitly discouraged that sort of progression. But your calculations also seem a tad off.

Lets say I am a paladin18 with spirited charge and a lance (dealing triple damage in a successful charge). Rhino's rush should increase this to x4 damage, not x6 (you double only the base damage).

In addition, using the unapproachable east version of valarous (has it been reprinted elsewhere?), it has this clause stating "like a mounted warrior using the spirited charge feat", so my interpretation is that it basically gives you the spirited charge for free (and so should not stack with spirited charge).

So if my base damage with a lance is 1d8+75 (quite conservative, charging smite and PA already each add +36 damage), I would deal 4d8+300 damage). Still more than enough to 1-shot any PC though.

On a side note, can a mounted paladin used charging smite?

 

[NewJeffCT]

On a side note, can a mounted paladin used charging smite?

I think you're correct, now that I think about it. charging smite is what you get when you give up a mount...

 

[Elethiomel]

I think you're correct, now that I think about it. charging smite is what you get when you give up a mount...

You give up your paladin special mount class feature; it has no restrictions on it saying you don't get its advantages if you're doing a mounted charge.

Also, strength improves the damage linearly, just with a large multiplier - if it increased exponentially, it would multiply with itself.

Then, +13 for base Power Attack damage, which becomes +19 for a 2 handed weapon.

Doesn't power attack exchange 2-for-1 with two-handed weapons? If so, that's +26.

PMing you the details of my paladin, btw.