3E & 4E Love and Hate Polls - What does it mean?

[Jhaelen]

I think the polls show what I knew all along:

ENWorld visitors know and (mostly) like(d) 3e and there's a noticable split between those that like 4e and those that don't.

I'm still playing 3e and still kind of like it but I'd prefer playing 4e. It's just that I didn't want to convert or quit my old campaign. I'd rather finish it with style before starting a 4e campaign.

After playtesting 4e all of my players that participated liked 4e (and some of them liked it better than 3e and are now pushing for switching). Those players that didn't participate in the playtest are (mostly) slowly coming around because the rest is excited about 4e.

And one player's dislike for 4e may turn into hate because he's realizing we _will_ switch to 4e and then he'll have to look for a new group.

 

[diaglo]

i'm curious as to why all of a sudden the results became skewed.

was somebody upset with the results they saw and decided to stuff the ballot?

 

[Desdichado]

Again, we all know that EN World is not an accurate cross-section of the total D&D playing populace, but it may be relatively representative of the serious-to-hardcore D&D playing minority, which in turn buys a significant portion of the game books published.* In other words, what I am saying is that I think these polls do matter, that they mean something of value and import to not only Wizards of the Coast but to the future of Dungeons & Dragons. What it means, I don't think anyone really knows. But let's talk about it.

I think you're wrong there. Even if I accept that premise as true (or at least reasonable) polls on websites are, by their nature, self-selecting, which is not a scientific sampling method, and it gives untrustworthy results.

I don't think your polls mean anything other than that people who were happy with 3e and are unhappy with 4e, for whatever reason, will go out of their way to vote against 4e and express their dislike, thus skewing any self-selecting poll results against 4e. A truly random sample would probably not give you anywhere near that high a spike on 4e dislike, assuming that you're really sampling the right population.

 

[Holy Bovine]

i'm curious as to why all of a sudden the results became skewed.

was somebody upset with the results they saw and decided to stuff the ballot?

Probably not 'stuff' but I'd imagine some who saw 4E getting a big 'hate' vote decided to give a 'hate' vote to 3E where they might have only given a 'dislike' or 'mixed bag' vote before seeing the 4E results.

Really the whole thing (both polls and this thread0 just seems like thinly disguised edition bashing. I'm really not sure what edition is being bashed though....

 

[Umbran]

However, I don't think it is either/or but somewhere in-between reliable/meaningful and unreliable/meaningless.

As others have indicated - the statistical mathematics governing polling data do not bend to our wills. What we think is not terribly relevant.

There's several blatant layers of self-selection in the polls, and probably a few subtle ones as well. There very language of the questions and allowed answers look to be bias-inducing as well.

Proper interpretation of data is almost Zen, like using the Force. The numbers tell you things, you don't get to determine what they'll say. You must approach the numbers with as few preconceived notions as possible - and that the numbers must have a meaning we can use is a preconceived notion.

 

[Rel]

The latest figures seem to indicate that nearly 70% of respondents Like or Love 4e and a similar number Dislike or Hate 3e.

 

[Wormwood]

And one player's dislike for 4e may turn into hate because he's realizing we _will_ switch to 4e and then he'll have to look for a new group.

I'd hazard a guess that such sentiments are not confined to that one player.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

Funny how fast internet polls change to the exact opposite...

I believe it is proven now: they are just for fun...

I still like 3rd edition... i loved it when it was new and shiney and I learned to DM, because my old DM just refused to play or DM it... playing 3rd edition was often not so funny... (character building was a mess... i miss the good old 2nd edition times)

I loved 2nd edition as a player, but i don´t know if i could play it again... I tried to DM it, but this was not that successfull (imbalances so great that it is not really funny)

Right now i love 4th edition... character building is fun and it is as easy to DM as 3rd edition. At least the heroic tier looks like it is the right game for me.

 

[avin]

Two words: skill challenges.

And ultimately, the non-combat mechanical aspect of the characters only affects information collection - the analysis belongs to the players.

The fewer skills suit my taste for fast-and-loose adjudication, as well as being easier to prepare skill challenges for.

Skill Challenges don't solve our problem and I removed any Skill Challenge that deals with roleplaying. None at our table is fond of Wizard's idea of stopping the roleplaying to say "you got a bonus to your XXXX", like suggested by DMG. This kill our disbelief suspension. We never interrupt roleplaying and, as DM, I create bonus/penalties intuitively (this exists on english?).

Skill Challenges are used to things like opening a portal, digging a hole in XXX time, etc.

We house ruled Professions back.

So, in the specific case of skills, I think 3E fits our taste far better.

And GURPS combat rocks, you silly D&D fanboy

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

The latest figures seem to indicate that nearly 70% of respondents Like or Love 4e and a similar number Dislike or Hate 3e.

Just a few posts up from yours:

i'm curious as to why all of a sudden the results became skewed.

was somebody upset with the results they saw and decided to stuff the ballot?