Assassin Mechanics Questions

[jkohlhepp]

I recently started a new campaign and one of my PCs is playing an assassin. After the first gaming session we had some mechanics questions that I'm hoping you guys can help out with.

- The assassin's shroud reads thusly: "Before you make an attack roll against the target, you choose to invoke either all your shrouds on it or none of them. If you invoke your shrouds, the attack deals 1d6 damage per shroud, minus one shroud if the attack misses". Does this mean that if you had 4 shrouds on a target, and you make an attack, you do 3 shrouds of damage even on a miss?

- Inescapable Blade has a range of "Melee weapon +2 reach". Does this mean Reach 2 or Reach 3?

- In general, what is the purpose of stacking shrouds? Since they scale linearly (i.e. 1d6 per shroud) it seems like there is no benefit to stacking them. The only things we could come up with were if you can't yet reach the BBEG so you stack shrouds while you mess up his minions. Or, if something bad happens when an enemy is bloodied you could build shrouds with the hopes of one-shotting them through the bloodied status. But both of these seem like very specific reasons. Do you generally just expend the shroud when you have one on the target or am I missing something?

Thanks,

~ Justin

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I recently started a new campaign and one of my PCs is playing an assassin. After the first gaming session we had some mechanics questions that I'm hoping you guys can help out with.

- The assassin's shroud reads thusly: "Before you make an attack roll against the target, you choose to invoke either all your shrouds on it or none of them. If you invoke your shrouds, the attack deals 1d6 damage per shroud, minus one shroud if the attack misses". Does this mean that if you had 4 shrouds on a target, and you make an attack, you do 3 shrouds of damage even on a miss?

Yes, you deal 3 shrouds of damage on a miss, and 4 on a hit in that case.

- In general, what is the purpose of stacking shrouds? Since they scale linearly (i.e. 1d6 per shroud) it seems like there is no benefit to stacking them. The only things we could come up with were if you can't yet reach the BBEG so you stack shrouds while you mess up his minions. Or, if something bad happens when an enemy is bloodied you could build shrouds with the hopes of one-shotting them through the bloodied status. But both of these seem like very specific reasons. Do you generally just expend the shroud when you have one on the target or am I missing something?

The above also answers the second question. There is your benefit. Simple case: You apply one shroud, attack, invoke a shroud, miss, deal no shroud damage. Next round, you do the same. You dealt no shroud damage at all over 2 rounds. If you hadn't invoked the shroud the first time, but only the second time, you deal more damage.

Also, sometimes you might be able to coordinate with other members of the party or using specific powers to gain a higher attack bonus than usual at a specific round - if you invoke all your shrouds then, you have a better chance of using them all.

Another aspect to consider is that some monsters become particularly dangerous once they are bloodied - if you use your shrouds now instead of before they got bloodied, you can shorten the time the enemy is around in his more dangerous state.
This benefit can also apply in other situations - for example, a Lurker that you have a hard time hitting or dealing damage, too. (Maybe a creature that turns insubstantial or gains damage resistance). You might be able to stack shrouds, but actually attacking the target at this moment is a waste of time.

 

[Klaus]

1 - If you invoke your shrouds and miss, you deal damage for one shroud less than the number of shrouds you invoked (so if you have 2 shrouds on the target, you deal 2d6 on a hit and 1d6 on a miss).

2 - You add 2 to the weapon's reach. So if you are attacking with a longsword you can attack a target 2 squares beyond what you could reach. An assassin with a glaive (a reach weapon) can attack a target 4 squares away.

3 - When you stack shrouds, you increase not only your hit damage, but guarantee a great miss damage. Assassins are one of the classes that don't really need Weapon Expertise of "+3 prof bonus" weapons, because they can deal damage even on a miss.

 

[Mengu]

To elaborate on #3, there are various reasons for invoking shrouds less frequently than every round.

- Pure math, you do better damage if you invoke every other round, rather than every round, because every other round if you miss, you are still doing some damage, bringing up your average.

- It's a good idea to make sure you don't lose any of the shroud dice. So if you are attacking without any bonuses or combat advantage (or with penalties due to cover, concealment, etc), it's probably better to wait. If you have a +2 power bonus from a leader and combat advantage on your target, you probably want to invoke because you are more likely to trigger the extra damage.

- If target you want to take down is bloodied, and either you or the next ally attacking it will likely take it down, may as well stick the shroud on a fresh target somewhere else.

Assassins are all about the setup and the kill. Unlike a warlock, ranger, or rogue, who try to get their striker damage every round, the assassin has the flexibility to wait for the opportune moment to deal his striker damage all at once. Ignoring advantages of this flexibility and triggering shrouds every round would be underplaying the assassin.

 

[lukelightning]

Assassin mechanics, eh? That gives me the idea for a hybrid assassin-artificer!

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Assassin mechanics, eh? That gives me the idea for a hybrid assassin-artificer!

There are some powers that create exploding constructs...

 

[Mort_Q]

Assassin mechanics, eh? That gives me the idea for a hybrid assassin-artificer!

Are there hybrid assassin rules available yet?

[edit] Sorry, not trying to threadjack [/edit]

 

[Larrin]

Another reason to build up shrouds: You aren't attacking the creature....Yet.

A common strategy (for me) is to pick the biggest nasty and start shrouding him, but for my standard actions I flit around avoiding him and harass the littler ones. Once the big guy's up to four shrouds, I let loose with the most reliable attack i can (often shadow darts) and take him down quite a bit. Then i avoid him again, laying on more shrouds while I mop up other foes. Once only one guy is left i tend to start activating shrouds on the turn i lay them, or every other.

Another great reason to build up to four shrouds: Slayers endurance (lvl 10 utility): 4 shrouds = 20 temp hp......If i'm lucky sometimes thats the only damage i take in a battle, which saves my measly healing surges for my less lucky battles.

 

[Klaus]

And let's not forget the Brutal Shroud feat. Reroll all "1" that come up for shroud damage, wether hit or miss. Since the die is only a d6, there's a good chance of turning a "1" into a "5" or "6"!

 

[Destil]

Another reason to build up shrouds: You aren't attacking the creature....Yet.

A common strategy (for me) is to pick the biggest nasty and start shrouding him, but for my standard actions I flit around avoiding him and harass the littler ones.

Yeah, assassin are actually one of the best strikers to take down minions for this reason. Pop some minions while you're shrouding, then once they're out of the way you can invoke your shrouds.

Also, the feat that lets you shroud people without their knowledge can be fantastic if you have a good stealth check and the guts to sneak ahead of the party from time to time...