Can a Slowed Creature Shift?

[Infiniti2000]

If a flying creature does not move more than 2 squares on its turn, it crashes at the end of that turn.

Doesn't it say "at least 2 squares?" That's what the compendium prints on "flying" as it says is referenced from the MM2.

Fly speed

A creature that has a fly speed can fly a number of squares up to that speed as a move action. To remain in the air, the creature must move at least 2 squares during its turn, or it crashes at the end of its turn. While flying, the creature can’t shift or make opportunity attacks, and it crashes if it’s knocked prone. See also “Flying,”

Also, at least in the compendium, crashing still lets you descend up to your fly speed.

If other rules have been omitted elsewhere, then obviously these take precedence. If other rules have not been omitted or the compendium conflicts, then I'm not sure which one would be correct.

 

[MarkB]

If a flying creature does not move more than 2 squares on its turn, it crashes at the end of that turn.

Thus, if the creature does not use its move action after the BREEEEEM, it crashes. This has many uses.

PS: I did a search of the errata under PHB and MM for the word 'fly.' There has been no errata to the minimum flying speed thing... it's still very much in the rules, unless you can produce it for me. The fly minimum distance is written in the MM, btw

I believe the Flying rules that were updated are in the DMG.

EDIT: Confirmed, page 2 of the Dungeon Master's Guide PDF.

It's hardcoded into Prone itself now... what was removed was the ability to descend your fly speed before crashing. Now you simply crash automatically.

That's because that ability is now built into flight capability for any fall. A creature that falls while flying subtracts its speed from the number of squares fallen before determining damage - so if it falls a shorter distance than its speed, it takes no damage.

 

[Markn]

"Dazed" says you can only take one action on your turn aside from free actions. If you get dazed after taking an action, you cannot take any further actions that turn, because you've already taken one action on your turn.

Likewise, if you start your turn dazed, and use your one action to remove the Dazed condition (i.e. by triggering an extra saving throw), you can then take further actions, because you're not under any restriction as to how many actions you can take.

I'm not so sure its as clear cut as you think. Once again, slow states the following:

Your speed becomes 2. This speed applies to all your movement modes, but it does not apply to teleportation or to a pull, a push, or a slide. You can’t increase your speed above 2, and your speed doesn’t increase if it was lower than 2. If you’re slowed while moving, stop if you have already moved 2 or more squares.

The bolded part is my emphasis. The slow condition is explicit that it looks back in time at your movement - and if you have already moved two squares you stop movement.

Dazed, to use your example, says the following:

DAZED
✦ You grant combat advantage.
✦ You can take either a standard action, a move action,
or a minor action on your turn (you can also take
free actions). You can’t take immediate actions or
opportunity actions.
✦ You can’t flank an enemy.

Nowhere does it look at what you've done prior to the condition going into effect. Dazed does not explicitly look at what happend prior to the condition going into effect. Furthermore, if it did, it would make for some strange rulings if someone had already performed more than 1 action. Would you roll back the action? Would you just ignore the other action? Either way, it creates a bit of a bizarre situation. The only logical option is to apply the effect from that point on.

 

[MarkB]

I'm not so sure its as clear cut as you think. Once again, slow states the following:

Your speed becomes 2. This speed applies to all your movement modes, but it does not apply to teleportation or to a pull, a push, or a slide. You can’t increase your speed above 2, and your speed doesn’t increase if it was lower than 2. If you’re slowed while moving, stop if you have already moved 2 or more squares.

The bolded part is my emphasis. The slow condition is explicit that it looks back in time at your movement - and if you have already moved two squares you stop movement.

Dazed, to use your example, says the following:

DAZED
✦ You grant combat advantage.
✦ You can take either a standard action, a move action,
or a minor action on your turn (you can also take
free actions). You can’t take immediate actions or
opportunity actions.
✦ You can’t flank an enemy.

Nowhere does it look at what you've done prior to the condition going into effect. Dazed does not explicitly look at what happend prior to the condition going into effect. Furthermore, if it did, it would make for some strange rulings if someone had already performed more than 1 action. Would you roll back the action? Would you just ignore the other action? Either way, it creates a bit of a bizarre situation. The only logical option is to apply the effect from that point on.

It's actually very simple. Any time you are dazed, you simply ask yourself "Have I taken a standard action, move action or minor action on my turn?" If the answer is yes, then you can't take any more of those actions.

It's also a consistent way to run the effect. If you're affected by it on your turn, you are immediately subjected to its limitations - and if it is removed on your turn, you are immediately freed from those limitations.

 

[Festivus]

I believe the Flying rules that were updated are in the DMG.

EDIT: Confirmed, page 2 of the Dungeon Master's Guide PDF.



That's because that ability is now built into flight capability for any fall. A creature that falls while flying subtracts its speed from the number of squares fallen before determining damage - so if it falls a shorter distance than its speed, it takes no damage.

So a slowed, prone, dazed flier is totally hosed.

 

[Xeterog]

So, your argument is that +4 is not a bonus to your speed. Is it just that speed is simply a variable used in the calculation for a power? I think I follow your reasoning here.

There is a difference between something saying your speed becomes Speed + 4 and something saying you move your speed + 4

Heavy Armor penalty to movement modifies your speed..so your speed in heavy armor becomes Speed - 1. However, if you are slowed, your Heavy armor does not affect your speed, since you can't modify your slowed speed at all.

Running does not modify your speed, it allows you to move your Speed + 2 squares. It does not mean you now have a speed of (Speed+2), it means you still have a speed of 2 (in the case of slowed) and you can move (by running) 4 squares per move action.

There are feats and items that increase your speed..these (in general) add to your speed value and would not help you while slowed, as they modify your speed value.

 

[Infiniti2000]

Heavy Armor penalty to movement modifies your speed..so your speed in heavy armor becomes Speed - 1. However, if you are slowed, your Heavy armor does not affect your speed, since you can't modify your slowed speed at all.

-1 is not a bonus and the rule doesn't say "modifier" it says "bonus." That said, when slowed your speed is now 2. In fact, if you had enough equipment that your speed was a 1, getting slowed speeds you up!

 

[Markn]

It's actually very simple. Any time you are dazed, you simply ask yourself "Have I taken a standard action, move action or minor action on my turn?" If the answer is yes, then you can't take any more of those actions.

It's also a consistent way to run the effect. If you're affected by it on your turn, you are immediately subjected to its limitations - and if it is removed on your turn, you are immediately freed from those limitations.

Why would slowed be so explicit then?

 

[Infiniti2000]

It's actually very simple. Any time you are dazed, you simply ask yourself "Have I taken a standard action, move action or minor action on my turn?" If the answer is yes, then you can't take any more of those actions.

It's also a consistent way to run the effect. If you're affected by it on your turn, you are immediately subjected to its limitations - and if it is removed on your turn, you are immediately freed from those limitations.

That's no more valid than: At the beginning of your turn, determine how many standard, move, minor, and free actions you have. If you are dazed, you have one action (standard, move, OR minor) plus free actions. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, nothing changes this.

Your "consistent" approach is actually a retcon and creates a paradox. If I take a minor action and then become dazed, I can't do anything else? But, if I take all three actions and then become dazed, the universe doesn't blow up? How's that consistent? Instead, apply the daze going forward (not backward, i.e. no retcon) from the point at which it was initiated. You still can't violate the laws of the universe in terms of actions per round, but if you took a minor action and then became dazed, you would still get one more action (plus free actions). If you took a standard action and then became dazed, your one more action could only be a minor or move action (plus free actions).

 

[mneme]

Infiniti, you're making no sense. Becoming dazed doesn't suddenly cause you to "forget" how many actions you've taken on a given turn.

If you're dazed, and you've taken one -or more- action on that turn, you can't take further actions. There's no reason to introduce a false dichotomy; of course you don't undo actions taken before you were dazed -- you weren't dazed!