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Can someone explain to me what 'Christmas Tree effect' means?
- Thread starter ourchair
- Start date
Ahrimon
Bourbon and Dice
I think it originated in 3X. Where, in the later levels, characters would need, and have, so many different items that the number of items they had was like lights on a christmas tree.
It generally refers to characters having a whole lot of magic items that are required. Or beleived to be required to maintain 100% effectiveness. Afterall, if a character isn't 100% effective at all times then he has failed. Or something like that.
It generally refers to characters having a whole lot of magic items that are required. Or beleived to be required to maintain 100% effectiveness. Afterall, if a character isn't 100% effective at all times then he has failed. Or something like that.
FreeTheSlaves
Adventurer
In 3E you needed:
enhancement to armour AC
enhancement to shield AC (floating shields...)
enhancement to hit/dmg
enhancement to stats
natural armour to AC
deflection to AC
enhancement to saves
Moving beyond that you'd want:
speed boosts
elemental resistances
DR (stoneskins)
access to flight
access to haste
access to buff/scry/teleport
access to deathward
access to mindblank (eventually)
access to tomes of stat boosts
There's other stuff but basically you really wanted to pursue the above.
enhancement to armour AC
enhancement to shield AC (floating shields...)
enhancement to hit/dmg
enhancement to stats
natural armour to AC
deflection to AC
enhancement to saves
Moving beyond that you'd want:
speed boosts
elemental resistances
DR (stoneskins)
access to flight
access to haste
access to buff/scry/teleport
access to deathward
access to mindblank (eventually)
access to tomes of stat boosts
There's other stuff but basically you really wanted to pursue the above.
All the above and you would light up like a Christmas tree under a detect magic with all that gear on.
Not to forget the collection of CLW wands and 3 helms of give me some neat utility power (after you use one you take it off and put a new one on - during combat so you can get the same affect multiple times in a single fight). Spme DMS (like me) would not let players do this however (way to cheesey for me).
Klaus
First Post
Yeah, pretty much this.
In previous editions, you needed as many "+ x" items you could get. +1 armor, +1 shield, +1 weapon, +1 cloak of protection, +1 ring of protection, +1 ability enhancement items (girdle of strength, periapt of Wisdom), etc, etc, just to keep up with the threat level. When seen through Detect Magic, you light up like a Christmas Tree.
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Characters had a wealth by level guideline that was very high (and indeed unsustainable, based on typical amounts of treasure gained per encounter).
The system assumed you were covered in magic items. If you weren't, certain stats (AC and saves, plus your main ability score - critical for spellcasters) fell so low the inbalance with other stats was very pronounced and obvious, and monsters would have you for lunch. (Contrast with attack bonuses, which would still increase.)
DMs could have trouble just assigning treasure. I used a random treasure generator and not only were the amounts it was giving out mind-boggling, but it turned out to not be enough. Too much scrambling to a big city like Sharn in order to sell loot for decent gear. It felt like Diablo, where unless it's a boss fight, you aren't running home due to lack of hit points or mana, but because your treasure box is full. At one point (I was a PC in this Eberron campaign) we had filled all our bags of holding and were reduced to only looting enemy rings (essentially weightless, and usually high value too).
The items were so integrated within the rules that most attempts to create low-magic item systems in 3.x were doomed to failure.
Contrast to 4e, where many items (those that boost stats) don't exist (except in name), where character defenses actually improve with levels rather than items, and the only items you have to boost are weapons or implements, armor (or cloth) and cloaks of resistance. At a mere three, you can create low-magic-item rules that actually make sense. (The inherent bonus system effectively replaces those three items.)
The management system is also easier. In theory magic items have cost, but that has nothing to do with balance. (I think the same thing of rarity; not only do I not know what this concept even is, I don't care and don't intend to learn.) Instead I can just use level.
The system assumed you were covered in magic items. If you weren't, certain stats (AC and saves, plus your main ability score - critical for spellcasters) fell so low the inbalance with other stats was very pronounced and obvious, and monsters would have you for lunch. (Contrast with attack bonuses, which would still increase.)
DMs could have trouble just assigning treasure. I used a random treasure generator and not only were the amounts it was giving out mind-boggling, but it turned out to not be enough. Too much scrambling to a big city like Sharn in order to sell loot for decent gear. It felt like Diablo, where unless it's a boss fight, you aren't running home due to lack of hit points or mana, but because your treasure box is full. At one point (I was a PC in this Eberron campaign) we had filled all our bags of holding and were reduced to only looting enemy rings (essentially weightless, and usually high value too).
The items were so integrated within the rules that most attempts to create low-magic item systems in 3.x were doomed to failure.
Contrast to 4e, where many items (those that boost stats) don't exist (except in name), where character defenses actually improve with levels rather than items, and the only items you have to boost are weapons or implements, armor (or cloth) and cloaks of resistance. At a mere three, you can create low-magic-item rules that actually make sense. (The inherent bonus system effectively replaces those three items.)
The management system is also easier. In theory magic items have cost, but that has nothing to do with balance. (I think the same thing of rarity; not only do I not know what this concept even is, I don't care and don't intend to learn.) Instead I can just use level.
Last edited:
Destil
Explorer
The difference between 3E and earlier editions, for what it's worth, is that it let you know it assumed you had this much gear. Earlier editions had no baseline wealth guidelines. 3E added them, so that it could create consistent numbers for things like CR, but did so in a very 3E way (adding lots of little things to everything, especially AC). These assumptions about how much stuff you needed to 'keep up' with the expected level were new in 3E (and still pretty rough around the edges, given how much of an art and how little of a science 3E monster design is).
4E cut the 'lots of little or indirect bonuses to every individual thing' idea and replaced them with built in advancement via ability scores and the 1/2 level bonus + "the big three" : plussed items that add to AC (armor) Attack & da,age & critical (weapon/implement) and non AC defenses (neck).
Thus instead of getting AC from 5+ items that add different types of AC bonuses and a Dex enhancing item (and/or buffs from the spellcasters), you get it from Armor and level in 4E (and feats and ability scores potentially).
4E cut the 'lots of little or indirect bonuses to every individual thing' idea and replaced them with built in advancement via ability scores and the 1/2 level bonus + "the big three" : plussed items that add to AC (armor) Attack & da,age & critical (weapon/implement) and non AC defenses (neck).
Thus instead of getting AC from 5+ items that add different types of AC bonuses and a Dex enhancing item (and/or buffs from the spellcasters), you get it from Armor and level in 4E (and feats and ability scores potentially).
UnknownAtThisTime
First Post
I think it originated in 3X. Where, in the later levels, characters would need, and have, so many different items that the number of items they had was like lights on a christmas tree.
It generally refers to characters having a whole lot of magic items that are required. Or beleived to be required to maintain 100% effectiveness. Afterall, if a character isn't 100% effective at all times then he has failed. Or something like that.
Must spread XP for the bolded ....
Covered it for you.
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