Triggered Actions - Some Clarifications?

[Siberys]

I can't speak for Draco, but when I said player, I really meant whoever was running the creature; player for PCs, DM for monsters.

 

[Colmarr]

Stategic implicationa are why it's not a bad reason to put it in the hands of the player.

Oh, I wasn't disagreeing with you. I was simply pointing out one of the most obvious considerations attached to the question.

 

[chitzk0i]

Let's imagine my fighter is wielding a greatspear and hits with the power Weaponmaster's Strike. If that enemy shifts, I'll get the opportunity to make a Combat Challenge attack and an OA, both triggered by the shift. Yes, it would be legal to take both attacks.

 

[DracoSuave]

So wait; if the player triggers an OA and a immediate action from a monster, the -player- should get to decide how the monster responds?

No, but monsters with immediate interrupts that can trigger at the same time as an opportunity action are fairly rare, last I checked. The implication is that players can leverage it far more often than monsters.

 

[mneme]

@DracoSuave : It's true that monsters with abilities that can trigger at the same time as an OA are rare. But I'd be surprised if one couldn't find a few with enough digging (and, of course, you can build monsters by cribbing from the PC books).

The thing is, the principle that 'when the order of "simultaneous" actions is arbitrary, player controlling the proximate source of those actions decides on the order' is a very useful one for 4e and worth generalizing. At the very least, it applies to triggered actions (very explicitly), and more implicitly, "things that happen at the beginning of your turn [like effect expiration, regeneration, Font of Life and continuous damage" and "things that happen at the end of your turn [like effect expiration and saving throws]." Although technically, both of those are triggered; they're triggered on the beginning or end of your turn, respectively. [but they're not actions]

 

[DracoSuave]

@DracoSuave : It's true that monsters with abilities that can trigger at the same time as an OA are rare. But I'd be surprised if one couldn't find a few with enough digging (and, of course, you can build monsters by cribbing from the PC books).

Contrast the effort required with the effort a PC needs: Be a defender.
It really will come up more often for PCs. Doesn't change the point of the player deciding what will trigger.

The thing is, the principle that 'when the order of "simultaneous" actions is arbitrary, player controlling the proximate source of those actions decides on the order' is a very useful one for 4e and worth generalizing. At the very least, it applies to triggered actions (very explicitly), and more implicitly, "things that happen at the beginning of your turn [like effect expiration, regeneration, Font of Life and continuous damage" and "things that happen at the end of your turn [like effect expiration and saving throws]." Although technically, both of those are triggered; they're triggered on the beginning or end of your turn, respectively. [but they're not actions]

Simultaneous triggers at the beginning and/or end of a turn are resolved in the order most beneficial to whose turn it is. Ongoing damage can't drop you before you regenerate, for example (a big deal as dying creatures can't regenerate).

As for triggered actions, it'd pretty much have to be in control of the owner of those actions anyways, as they decide whether to take those actions. There's no involuntary immediate or opportunity actions.