How NBC tried to kill Community's D&D Episode

[DumbPaladin]

I don't think its that D&D has a stigma to Hollywood types. I really don't.

As someone who lives just a few minutes from Hollywood and knows several people who work in the industry, I think you may be right about the "lack of coolness" factor they perceive, but I must take pains to point out that Hollywood types aren't exactly the most mentally & emotionally healthy people when taken on the whole.

It doesn't surprise me that a group of people that includes far too many addicts, egomaniacs, and people with other pretty self-destructive vices can't get why it's OK to sit around with your friends and enjoy each others' company while playing a game.

There are some nice people in Hollywood, to be sure ... but they aren't representative of 'Hollywood' as a whole, unfortunately.

 

[Felon]

Although I liked the episode in question, and it piqued my interest enough to watch both seasons, I can't say I recall it being particularly respectful of the game and its players. Neil is presented to us as, as Pierce describes him, "a fat crybaby". His character loses his sword, and he starts weeping. Between sobs he explains that he played 50 campaigns to get that sword, as if the Code of Dungeons and Dragons makes him honorbound to strike it from his character sheet forevermore.

What's more, even the characters that are nice to Neil treat him in a fairly patronizing manner that Neil does little to dispel.

"Well, I suppose we could catch him if we had a pegasus."

"If that's sarcasm, I can't tell because everything in this game is silly."

Funny, yes. Respectful? Not particularly.

 

[Fast Learner]

Although I liked the episode in question, and it piqued my interest enough to watch both seasons, I can't say I recall it being particularly respectful of the game and its players. Neil is presented to us as, as Pierce describes him, "a fat crybaby". His character loses his sword, and he starts weeping. Between sobs he explains that he played 50 campaigns to get that sword, as if the Code of Dungeons and Dragons makes him honorbound to strike it from his character sheet forevermore.

What's more, even the characters that are nice to Neil treat him in a fairly patronizing manner that Neil does little to dispel.

I agree that they make fun of Neil, and as an extension, D&D players. However when they were all playing and were all into it I think they did an excellent job of portraying the fun of roleplaying games.

 

[DumbPaladin]

Although I liked the episode in question, and it piqued my interest enough to watch both seasons, I can't say I recall it being particularly respectful of the game and its players. Neil is presented to us as, as Pierce describes him, "a fat crybaby". His character loses his sword, and he starts weeping. Between sobs he explains that he played 50 campaigns to get that sword, as if the Code of Dungeons and Dragons makes him honorbound to strike it from his character sheet forevermore.

What's more, even the characters that are nice to Neil treat him in a fairly patronizing manner that Neil does little to dispel.

"Well, I suppose we could catch him if we had a pegasus."

"If that's sarcasm, I can't tell because everything in this game is silly."

Funny, yes. Respectful? Not particularly.

You and I both know there are people like this who play D&D, and worse.

And I would hope you know that no group of people, no matter how much like us they may be, should be above parody and satire.

Everyone deserves time being the butt of the joke, or else comedy is just an excuse for bigotry. It's got to be equal-opportunity. The point was that D&D players as a wole were not the joke in the episode.

They could have been.

 

[Bullgrit]

I know nothing about this TV show, at all. But this last part of the first paragraph stunned me:

And arguably, I think Dungeons & Dragons is a more accessible game than poker, because there are all these weird arbitrary rules about what beats a straight flush, but there are no arbitrary rules about if you take someone’s sword and rape their family.

There're two distinct "WTF?" things in that one sentence.

Bullgrit

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

There're two distinct "WTF?" things in that one sentence.

Bullgrit

Yup.

As for Neil- who has now been in a handful of episodes- and his treatment, and how D&D is treated, I think you should keep in mind the lens he and the game are being seen through:

1) former popular guy, former lawyer, stuck getting his life back together at a second-rate community college

2) narcissistic, misogynistic, racist older dude- a low-rent version of Gordon Geko

3) former "cool girl" stuck getting her life back together at a second-rate community college

4) former "King of HS" jock stuck getting his life started at a second-rate community college

5) former "Daddy's princess" stuck getting her life started at a second-rate community college

6) a religious conservative

In short, a small sampling of the kinds of people who have historically had a hand in ridiculing the game and it's players. Most of whom expected (or previously experienced) greater from life than GCC can do for them. Of the entire study group, only Abed is favorably predisposed to the game.

So their initial attitude towards the game is understandable...and (most of) their learning something positive from playing the game is at odds with their initial worldview.

THEY change- a little- but Neil doesn't. He simply reveals a depth of character that some of them wish they had.

So yes, D&D and the players get a little ribbing...but it's the game's detractors who get the life lesson... Well, except Pierce & Chang.

 

[Bullgrit]

I don't think you got the "two distinct 'WTF' things" I meant.

WTF #1

Dungeons & Dragons is a more accessible game than poker, because there are all these weird arbitrary rules about what beats a straight flush, but there are no arbitrary rules

This guy claims to have played D&D? Any edition/era has far more "weird [and sometimes seemingly] arbitrary rules" than poker. (I'm not a poker fan.) And it has never been "more accessible" than any card game.

And my point of view comes from someone who loves D&D and wishes more people knew and played it.

WTF #2

if you take someone’s sword and rape their family

Just WTF? Having this phrase in the same sentence with D&D makes me uncomfortable. (In the context of a TV show.)

Bullgrit

 

[fba827]

It should be pointed out that Dan Harmon is also one of the primary writers for the infamous Summoner Geeks sketch (you know the one "I magic missile the darkness" "where's the mountain dew" "if there are any girls there, i want to DOOO them" "Roll to see if I'm getting drunk"). So, yes, expect a tongue in cheek type of comedy as it's not like he was portraying D&D players in some saintly light in that sketch either.
Yet (to me) it was amusing enough for what it was.

WTF #2Just WTF? Having this phrase in the same sentence with D&D makes me uncomfortable. (In the context of a TV show.)

If you didn't see the episode then, yes, taken out of context that quote is a serious WTF moment. But in context of the episode, it makes considerably more sense. Basically, the villain does something like that and that is what the party is trying to overcome and defeat and motivates their group-bonding experience.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I don't think you got the "two distinct 'WTF' things" I meant.

WTF #1This guy claims to have played D&D? Any edition/era has far more "weird [and sometimes seemingly] arbitrary rules" than poker. (I'm not a poker fan.) And it has never been "more accessible" than any card game.

And my point of view comes from someone who loves D&D and wishes more people knew and played it.

WTF #2Just WTF? Having this phrase in the same sentence with D&D makes me uncomfortable. (In the context of a TV show.)

Bullgrit

No, I got that.

Then I went on to talk about other things.

 

[Crothian]

Better luck next time NBC.