A silly question about Evasion

[Iku Rex]

Of course they can.

Agreed.

For another illustrative quote: "When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities."

So, the rules aren't shy about spelling it out if you lose an ability when using a shield.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

If it helps any, in Dungeons & Dragons Online rogues can still evade with a shield equipped (including tower) but not with heavy or medium armor. The rogue can also evade when using a mithril breastplate, so in that regard medium armors made of mithril are treated as light for all intents and purposes that I've found.

 

[Arrowhawk]

Agreed.

For another illustrative quote: "When wearing armor, using a shield, or carrying a medium or heavy load, a monk loses her AC bonus, as well as her fast movement and flurry of blows abilities."

So, the rules aren't shy about spelling it out if you lose an ability when using a shield.

Except that that the DMG on page 293 says you can't evade when bound or squeezing through or a crack. So I guess the books aren't perfect at canvassing every contingency in every case are they?

 

[Arrowhawk]

If it helps any, in Dungeons & Dragons Online rogues can still evade with a shield equipped (including tower) but not with heavy or medium armor. The rogue can also evade when using a mithril breastplate, so in that regard medium armors made of mithril are treated as light for all intents and purposes that I've found.

So for the first 6-8 months, Evasion on DDO used to work with Heavy armor. This gave rise to the "Batman" build whereby Paladin's would take a dip into Rogue and get Evasion in Full Plate. Not sure I'd trust DDO's implementation as a definitive source for the rules.

Regarding Mithril armor...

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.​

 

[Jackinthegreen]

So for the first 6-8 months, Evasion on DDO used to work with Heavy armor. This gave rise to the "Batman" build whereby Paladin's would take a dip into Rogue and get Evasion in Full Plate. Not sure I'd trust DDO's implementation as a definitive source for the rules.

Regarding Mithril armor...

Most mithral armors are one category lighter than normal for purposes of movement and other limitations. Heavy armors are treated as medium, and medium armors are treated as light, but light armors are still treated as light.​

There have been some questions in the past regarding that exact quote actually. I explained how DDO used that rule in case anyone had questions.

And yes, DDO isn't really a definitive source for the rules. However, it is an example of what has been done with the rules to hopefully create a more balanced and/or playable game.

 

[Arrowhawk]

However, it is an example of what has been done with the rules to hopefully create a more balanced and/or playable game.

I'd be careful about using that rationale with Turbine and any on-line game. In some cases, I'd agree, but in many others, it's a product of bugs and poor implementation. DDO got Evasion wrong when they implemented from the get go. By the time they got around to addressing it, there were so many builds based on the exploit, they took their sweet ass time in correcting it because they knew they would lose customers over it. The attitude of most MMORPG's run by bean-counters is you don't nerf toons because that makes people quit.

Turbine's primary motivation with DDO is in generating revenue, not necessarily making the game playable. While I think we'd both agree that achieving the second improves the first over the long run. I'm not sure what timeline Turbine is operating on.

Having said that, one change we borrowed from DDO is giving pure Rangers both combat styles.

 

[Vegepygmy]

Whether any particular shield crosses the line is a DM's call.

That's true to the exact same extent as whether wielding any particular weapon crosses the line, too. That is to say, a DM can make up any rule he likes, but there is absolutely nothing in the official text to support it.

I'd vote no on light, yes on heavy.

I commend you for your arbitrariness.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Shields in no way hinder your movement unless their weight puts you into the next highest load category. Only armors hinder your movement in a significant fashion. So not only does the RAW clearly not prohibit shield use for evasion, logic doesn't really follow, either...

I guess if you're upset about all those broken rogue characters making your poor weak defenseless wizards and dragons cry with their 733+ hax0r shield evasive maneuvers this is a major problem for you, though...

 

[Arrowhawk]

I commend you for your arbitrariness.

Guess you don't really understand what that word means do you?

 

[Arrowhawk]

Shields in no way hinder your movement unless their weight puts you into the next highest load category.

False. Heavy shields carry an armor check penalty which means what? It mean they limit your movement.

logic doesn't really follow, either...

Then you're not really familiar with "logic" are you? Arguing that carrying around a Tower Shield shouldn't affect your mobility is decidedly moronic. Now a TS may actually give you Evasion as a benefit from the cover, but that's not the argument you're making is it?

I guess if you're upset about all those broken rogue characters making your poor weak defenseless wizards and dragons cry with their 733+ hax0r shield evasive maneuvers this is a major problem for you, though...

Sorry, I don't speak Junior High.