Warblade Questions

[LiL KiNG]

So I'm looking at making a fighter build and while all the feats are nice, the maneuvers from ToB look fun to try out.
While Warblade fits the build idea the best I think it has some rather useless features; weapon aptitude being one because how often do you really want to change the weapon your feats are aligned for anyway. I'll be a shield dwarf using a dwarven waraxe, period (1 level of exotic weapon master for the 2x str ability for 2hd'ing the waraxe). Then the random 'add intelligence bonus' to 'x' features are rather dull as well. I'd prefer bonus feats in place of those for sure, or more useful and solid abilities like the Swordsage gets; initiative bonus, weapon focus, etc.

Anyway, looking at the maneuvers and stances you can learn I was sad to see only the Crusader knows Devoted Spirit discipline abilities. So looking at the feats in the ToB I see the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats.
With Martial study can I learn a Devoted Spirit maneuver as a Warblade? Then, Martial Stance requires you know a maneuver from a discipline so if I know a Devoted Spirit maneuver from Marital Study can I learn a Devoted Spirit stance with Martial Stance? Does this work or am I reading them wrong?
I'm mostly after the Iron Heart level 1 stance that deals +1d6 damage and the Devoted level 1 stance that heals you (or ally) for 2 hp with every melee attack and was wondering if those two feats would accomplish this goal for the Warblade?

Did they ever make any other ToB like classes in another splat book or Dungeon mag besides the Crusader, Swordsage and Warblade? Be nice to have a few more options as none seem all that great except maybe Swordsage, but I was hoping for a full BAB progression build.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Those are the only martial adept classes WotC ever made. Fans have made many others, including me. I would definitely pick any one of the 3 over Fighter.

What do you want to do with your character? On the sound of it, I don't think Swordsage would be the best fit... Crusader is the best tank in the game; able to absorb hits, heal, and control the battlefield (Thicket of Blades is a very good stance). That said, they only get 3 disciplines, very very few boosts and counters, and no tumble. I find them kind of boring, though the random maneuver granting definitely spices things up. Warblade is very hard hitting and actually has a surprising amount of counters (and some boosts) along with the strikes. They get the most hp, but lack the AC and healing abilities of Crusader, so they tend to get hacked up faster. Both have their merits, crusader is probably much closer to a typical dwarf sword and board warrior.

And yes, you can use the feats to learn stuff from other disciplines. Unless you're a 20th level warblade you can't have 2 stances on at once, though.

 

[nogray]

Warblade Answers (and Opinions)

I'm playing a Warblade now, and it has been really fun. As to your questions, let's take a look.

The Warblade is excellent, and it would be just fine even without any additional abilities. The maneuvers and stances are really that good. The level 20 "be-in-two-stances-at-the-same-time" ability (two more levels for me) is nearly game-changing, too. With all that going for it, those abilities that you have mentioned as "rather useless" are just icing on the cake. Swapping them for feats would be overpowered, in my opinion.

Weapon aptitude is really nice for campaigns with limited access to magic items tailored for your character. It can also be useful if you don't want to spend your first weapon-related feat on exotic weapon proficiency. You can instead start with something like weapon focus for more accuracy. Once you take the proficiency, you can aptitude the feat (or feats) into the final weapon.

The features that add your intelligence modifier are situationally useful. As I mentioned, though, you are fine without them, and replacing them with feats would probably be too good. It's a nice bonus, though, if you take your intelligence to 14 (so +2) for the extra skills that you might be wanting, anyway.

Devoted Spirit is sort of the Crusader "specialty." Each class in the Book of Nine Swords gets at least one that the others can't easily access. You are correct, though, that you can access it through the Martial Study and Martial Stance feats. Keep in mind the restriction on Martial Study (only able to be taken three times, I think). You can take the Stance feat as many times as you'd like, though, so if you are looking for a high level Devoted Spirit maneuver (like the level nine "heal" one), you can use stance feats to fill its prerequisites.

(On the topic of Martial Study, I feel I should mention Shadow Blink and Inferno Blade. Both are relatively high level maneuvers with no prerequisites. Shadow Blink is awesome for maneuverability. While Inferno Blade is great for damage, you'll do plenty of that anyway, so it's less needed.)

As StreamOfTheSky mentioned, there haven't been any other classes produced by Wizards of the Coast that use the Book of Nine Swords as a basis. There are some house-ruled variants floating about, though. I love all three of the classes, though. Each is great within its niche. The Crusader has the best maneuver recharge -- they never run out. The Warblade is a beast for power attacking, weapon specializing, and damage dealing. It also has that quick recharge with relatively low cost. The Swordsage has all those abilities at the ready and it has the largest selection of disciplines -- the breadth is the key there.

Anyhow, that is my take on things. I hope my answers and thoughts were helpful.

 

[Sekhmet]

Weapon Aptitude is one of the better features the class gets, actually.
Never know when your DM is going to toss a +2 Urgrosh, or a +3 Bastard Sword, or what have you into your loot pile, when you're using an unenchanted/+1 Waraxe.
Perhaps you need to use a ranged weapon for a day of tarrying encounters from across a chasm. Bam, Throwing Axes or Harpoons.
Or maybe later you realize that Waraxes just aren't your thing.

Aptitude is awesome.

 

[LiL KiNG]

Thanks for the replies, I was hoping WotC may have expanded on the ToB classes, but it seems like a lot of new ideas in 3.5 (skirmish being another one) got dropped in favor of 4e before they could introduce more material for it.

The build idea that has taken shape again is being a shield dwarf fighter swinging his waraxe with both hands (don't need exotic weapon proficiency with the dwarf's weapon familiarity, just martial weapon proficiencies). For background reasons he wouldn't want to give up his axe - which is why the aptitude seems useless to me, but I can see the benefits of it.
I guess I don't switch up my weapons as frequently as other people because each build I make usually stick with their initial weapon type, selling off magic ones they can't use to enchant their own over time.
For my rolls, I didn't do so hot so I have a +1 mod in Int, I could switch that with the +2 I have in Wis, but I like good Will saves as I'm paranoid about charm spells after a bad encounter with Harpies...
It's not that I like the Warblade except everything that makes it a Warblade lol, it's that I liked the full BAB, proficiencies, and some bonus feats mixed into the class. Wanting to use maneuvers this class seemed the closest to the fighter in that way, but yes, the other abilities like the aptitude and ones keys to Int Mod are just so-so to me. The ToB stuff is new to me and I will be the first person in the party to use any class from it.

Thanks for answering that the Martial Study and Stance feats can/will allow me to learn a maneuver and stance from another discipline I wouldn't normally have access too.

 

[Sekhmet]

It is just cheaper to use whichever loot item you find stuck in a rock than it is to enchant gear, especially at later levels, unless your DM allows you to sell items at cost.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

You might want to consider multiclassing a Warblade with occasional dips into Crusader, making use of the multiclassing 1/2 level stacking rules found on page 39 under "Multiclass Characters".

 

[PureGoldx58]

You might want to consider multiclassing a Warblade with occasional dips into Crusader, making use of the multiclassing 1/2 level stacking rules found on page 39 under "Multiclass Characters".

Or even multiclassing with Fighter for extra feats.

 

[Jackinthegreen]

For my rolls, I didn't do so hot so I have a +1 mod in Int, I could switch that with the +2 I have in Wis, but I like good Will saves as I'm paranoid about charm spells after a bad encounter with Harpies...

Look in the Diamond Mind section. The Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver allows you to make a Concentration check in place of a Will save. That will usually ensure you don't have to worry so much, especially since because it's a skill check it doesn't automatically fail on a 1. That and Constitution is the modifying ability so you'll have a good chance at making it work.

If you don't want to spend a maneuver on that for whatever odd reason, the feat Steadfast Determination allows you to use you Con modifier on Will saves instead of Wis. It also prevents you from automatically failing a Fort save on a 1.

 

[Olaf the Stout]

Look in the Diamond Mind section. The Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver allows you to make a Concentration check in place of a Will save. That will usually ensure you don't have to worry so much, especially since because it's a skill check it doesn't automatically fail on a 1. That and Constitution is the modifying ability so you'll have a good chance at making it work.

If you don't want to spend a maneuver on that for whatever odd reason, the feat Steadfast Determination allows you to use you Con modifier on Will saves instead of Wis. It also prevents you from automatically failing a Fort save on a 1.

I used to call the Moment of Perfect Mind the "Tree Falling in the Woods" maneuver (think the Simpsons mini golf episode). We had a Warblade PC in my last campaign. The player of the Warblade had horrible dice rolling luck so he used to use MoPM a lot. Even still, the first time he used the ability he rolled a 3 and still failed the save!

Olaf the Stout