D&D 5E Please Cap the Ability Scores in 5E

[Minigiant]

stat boossting items are ok, as long as they raise to a score, not by a score. This way, a naturally strong fighter is still the best of the best. And does not rely on magic to be super good...

As long as my fighter doesn't get punched out by a venerable wizard in a fancy belt...

 

[Hassassin]

No need to cap them if you don't put in any default level-based increases. Have ability increases be a tier/campaign choice: when you move to epic or wuxia or superhero tier you can add X points to your abilities.

 

[gyor]

I can see a cap at heroic, maybe at paragon or 5e equivilant, but for epic play absolutely not. Skies the limit for epic.

 

[Mattachine]

One problem I found with older edition caps is that when you have a storm giant with Str 24, but a bigger, stronger titan with Str 25, and a bigger stronger dragon with Str . . . ?

Caps compress the top end in strange ways I didn't find satisfying as a DM.

 

[Mercurius]

I haven't read the thread except for a couple responses, but I basically agree with what [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] said - don't cut options, just make more "superheroic" play optional.

In another thread I posited the idea that tiers should be done away with and Paragon Paths and Epic Destinies should become modular options for higher level play, but that the default "Core" advancement had a much shallower power curve, especially after about 10th level, with Paragon retaining a steep power curve from 11-20ish, and Epic from 21-30ish. In this approach, ability scores would still increase, but at a much lower rate or Core characters, with Paragon and Epic characters receiving further bonuses for a more "superheroic" character.

So it could be something like this:

CORE
Starting Ability Scores: 3-18 +1 or 2 for racial bonuses, for max 18-20 at level 1 (I'm still not sure I like +2 for a racial bonus)
+1 to two ability scores at level 5, 15, 25, etc (so max 19-21 for 5th, 20-22 for 15th, 21-23 for 25th, etc)

PARAGON
+1 for all ability scores at beginning of Path (typically L11), and after five levels (L16)

EPIC
+1 for all ability scores at beginning of Destiny (typically L21), and after five levels (L26)

IMMORTAL
+1 for all ability scores at beginning of Ascension (typically L31), and every five levels (L36, etc)

In other words, the Core advancement is slower, plus the Paragon, Epic, and Immortal advancements are part of modular options, so don't automatically kick in.

To put it another way, a Core elf could have a max Dex of 23 at Level 25, while a Paragon/Epic Elf could have a max Dex of 27 at level 26. The difference between a Core and Paragon character is +2 to all ability scores, while this broadens to +4 for Epic characters.

This system--Paragon and Epic as optional--allows for the best of both: modest advancement for "normal" characters but the option for more superheroic characters as well.

 

[Hassassin]

CORE
Starting Ability Scores: 3-18 +1 or 2 for racial bonuses, for max 18-20 at level 1 (I'm still not sure I like +2 for a racial bonus)
+1 to two ability scores at level 5, 15, 25, etc (so max 19-21 for 5th, 20-22 for 15th, 21-23 for 25th, etc)

I think your "core" (not the core game) should be no increases, and these should be moved to the other tiers. That's because the lowest tier should be characters that operate within human limits only - i.e. abilities up to 18. Otherwise it seems like a very good idea.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

I want all ability scores to "go to 11!"

So you favor an extremely low cap, then?

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I'd prefer to keep the power curve flat by reducing the number of things that increase scores, without establishing a cap.

Frankly, I'd prefer to avoid stat increases at all after character creation, and just provide additional situational/spell/level/magic item bonus increases to modifiers (e.g. "+1 to hit", not "+2 to STR"). I find pure stat increases to be too powerfully synergistic as they impact everything. Better IMO more focused bonuses.

 

[CM]

I've just skimmed the responses for the most part but I don't think anyone has mentioned this: If the goal is to prevent stat bonuses from spiraling out of control in combat, maybe the easiest solution is to cap the combat-relevant numerical benefit you get from a high score rather than the score itself.

(Assuming the same stat modifiers as in 3e and 4e) If the cap were +5 then both the 20 strength fighter and the 22 strength fighter would have a +5 bonus to melee attack and damage rolls, but the 22 strength fighter would have the edge in skill checks? Adding on a belt of giant strength +6 wouldn't be as big of a combat advantage as it once was, but would let the character perform some superhuman feats of strength which I don't think anyone wants to exclude from the game.

Edit: Another thought is that the DM could modify or remove this cap if desired, or increase it at each level tier (paragon/epic) if such exist in 5e.

 

[Lanefan]

Assuming that ability scores are tied to mechanics in 5e like they have been in every edition, capping them isn't going to happen.

That depends what mechanics they are tied to, doesn't it?

In a 2e-style system of roll-under ability checks (best skill system yet, by the way) there absolutely has to be a cap. Roll under Int. is pointless if your Int. is 25.

3e made stat-boost items - and spells - way too common; couple this with PCs being able to make their own items pretty much on a whim and the pieces were all in place for the inevitable mess it became.

Lanefan

 

[Minigiant]

Worrying about a cap without having an idea when the combat and skill mechanics is overall nonsensical.

Put a hard cap is usually proof of poor forumalas and the inability to fix it on the designer's part. 90% of the time it is the designers adding too many variables and not monitoring them.