Reach Weapons - a thought...

[RUMBLETiGER]

My understanding of Attacks of Opportunity as a concept has more to do with the person getting hit's attention either focused or divided than it does the one attacking.

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=OOO=
=OXO=
=OOO=
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X is target with melee reach weapon.
Moving from = to O provokes no A..
Moving O to =, a 5' step, provokes no A.., unless diagonal, which counts as 10'.
Moving from O to outside this diagram, or any 10' distance, provokes A..

I imagine it like this. If I were to come at my opponent, I'm looking at him, I can see him, I can reach if he tries anything funny. I don't "Give an opportunity to attack".

If I take a single large step away from a target, 5 feet, I can do so while still looking at my target, being completely focused, denying my opponent any opportunity to attack me in a surprise fashion.

If I move any further away from my opponent, I need to turn my back and retreat to cover any decent distance. If I'm moving 10 or more feet away, I need to divide my attention between my opponent and the environment or any other opponents. This divided attention gives my opponent the opportunity to attack me.

A Reach weapon would provoke no Attack of Opportunity approaching the target, once again, when I move towards my opponent my full focus is on that opponent, I don't give them the opportunity to surprise me with additional attacks. If I move away far enough to have to divide my attention, I can get hit at whatever the range of the weapon is.

Magic Item Compendium has the Changing Weapon Property that can only be applied to a Spear, Short Spear or Long Spear. As a Swift action the wielder can change this enchanted spear to be the size of any of those 3 sizes. This should allow conversion between a melee and 10' reach weapon in mid combat.

 

[Sekhmet]

The only thing I've ever had against reach weapons is that I never found a way either through classes or feats to be so awesome at using my spear that I can't also threaten adjacent squares in some way, even if I do take penalties.

I honestly have no idea how that would affect game balance. I just think it would be neat to do something like this:

Sucker Punch - Samurai Fight Scene [HD] - YouTube

Short Haft, PHB2. As a swift action, you can choose to lose the benefit of wielding any reach weapon other than a spiked chain or a whip. In return, you can use that weapon to threaten and attack spaces adjacent to you. With another swift action, you can give up this feat's benefit in order to regain the use of your weapon's superior reach.

 

[Water Bob]

My understanding of Attacks of Opportunity as a concept has more to do with the person getting hit's attention either focused or divided than it does the one attacking.

=====
=OOO=
=OXO=
=OOO=
=====

X is target with melee reach weapon.
Moving from = to O provokes no A..

No, moving from = to O will provoke an attack of opportunity, unless a 5' step is used, because the character is leaving a threatened square. The character is leaving one threatened square for another.

Here, this may help understand AoO's.

Moving O to =, a 5' step, provokes no A.., unless diagonal, which counts as 10'.

Only ever other square counts as 10'. The first one counts as 5', so the move is legal.

 

[Water Bob]

RE: Reach Weapons.

This is interesting, written by Skip Williams in this document.

Using Reach Weapons up Close
​

Normally, when you wield a reach weapon, the area you threaten forms a hollow ring. You threaten a band of squares away from you, but not the band of squares right next to you. This is the game's way of representing the weapon's physical limits. If the business end of the weapon is at the end of a pole more than 5 feet from you, it's pretty hard to bring that end to bear against a foe right next to you. ​

Most reach weapons have fairly sturdy shafts, however, and there's no reason why you couldn't use the shaft to clobber someone. Likewise, there's no reason why you couldn't shorten your grip on the weapon so that the business end doesn't stick out so far. To represent these possibilities, you can allow a character to use a reach weapon to attack foes within his natural reach, but with a -4 penalty on attack and damage rolls. The penalties simulate all the difficulties the character has when employing the weapon in this fashion, such as striking with the shaft or messing up the weapon's usual leverage and balance.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

Here, this may help understand AoO's.

From the above link, "Provoking Attacks of Opportunity by Moving- You provoke an attack of opportunity when you move out of a threatened square"
Bolded mine. Moving into a threatened square is approaching the target. Moving out of a threatened square is moving away from the target. There is no A.. for moving towards your enemy.

Only ever other square counts as 10'. The first one counts as 5', so the move is legal.

You're right, I sit corrected.

 

[Water Bob]

From the above link, "Provoking Attacks of Opportunity by Moving- You provoke an attack of opportunity when you move out of a threatened square"
Bolded mine. Moving into a threatened square is approaching the target. Moving out of a threatened square is moving away from the target. There is no A.. for moving towards your enemy.

Yes. Maybe I misuderstood your example. We're talking about reach weapons, so I assumed both the = and O squares were threatened.

If that's the case, then moving from = to O does, indeed, call for an Attack of Opportunity.

 

[Greenfield]

Actually, you can and do provoke AoO while moving towards your enemy, if that enemy has Reach (either from a weapon or from size). All you have to be doing is exiting a threatened square, in any direction, while moving more than 5 feet in the round. It doesn't matter if you happen to also be entering a square closer to that enemy.

 

[Greenfield]

Yes. Maybe I misuderstood your example. We're talking about reach weapons, so I assumed both the = and O squares were threatened.

If that's the case, then moving from = to O does, indeed, call for an Attack of Opportunity.

It doesn't matter if the O squares are threatened or not. (Most reach weapons wielded by someone in the X position won't threaten O squares).

All that matters is that the person is leaving an = square, which is threatened. They could be moving out, moving in. moving from one = square to another, it doesn't matter. If they're moving more than 5 feet in the round, and at any point in that movement they leave a threatened square, they provoke an AoO.

 

[Water Bob]

All that matters is that the person is leaving an = square, which is threatened. They could be moving out, moving in. moving from one = square to another, it doesn't matter.

If you read what I wrote, we're saying the exact same thing.

 

[TKDB]

From the above link, "Provoking Attacks of Opportunity by Moving- You provoke an attack of opportunity when you move out of a threatened square"
Bolded mine. Moving into a threatened square is approaching the target. Moving out of a threatened square is moving away from the target. There is no A.. for moving towards your enemy.

If you want to treat it that way as a houserule based on your above reasoning about distractions/divided attention, that's fine assuming your group is ok with it. But by RAW, moving "out" of a threatened square simply means leaving said square, regardless of the direction you're moving in. The PHB even has an example of how AoOs due to movement work that explains how you'd provoke an AoO for approaching an enemy with long reach when you leave the outermost square your target threatens.