D&D 5E I Don't Like Damage On A Miss

[FireLance]

4e got around this with the minion rule - they never took damage on a miss. We don't know that 5e won't have a similar rule.

I think a better approach may be to generalize the rule. As I posted in another thread:

Maybe we should have a rule that a missed attack cannot reduce the target's hp to 0 or below. That way, the final blow that kills an opponent will always be a hit.

If you like, you can also flip it around for saving throws, i.e. if you pass your saving throw, you will always have at least 1 hp left.

For spells that deal automatic damage, such as magic missile, the wizard must make an attack roll to see if he "hits" and kills an opponent with low hit points. Alternatively, the low-hp opponent must succeed on a Dexterity save or die.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

I like it... I love the idea that Hawkeye/Bulls eye/Deadshot never miss. The idea that when your for perry's your blade it still hurts his arms.

little damage on a miss only makes it boring when you fight kobolds and goblins... on a 16 hp creature even 3 misses in a row is 9-15hp based on stat (3,4,or5 mod)

 

[variant]

I definitely think Slayer should be a melee only theme.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I don't find it hard to picture, really. You deflect the fighter's blow with your armor, or shield, but the impact is so strong that it still stings a little. Or the axe blow scrapes along the dragon's scales, not doing significant damage but still knocking a couple loose.

Narratively it is very easy to explain away I think.

I would consider that the description of a hit that does minimal damage.

 

[Stormonu]

I had an issue with the damage on a miss for a fighter until ai realized the wizard's been doing damage on a miss for year (1/2 damage on successful save and disintegrate's 2d8 damage on a miss as examples).

After thinking about it for a bit - and how the loss of hit points are "using up luck", scratches and grazes/near misses, I don't think its a bad idea for fighters to be given a small amount of damage on a miss.

I would prefer though, the above stipulation that you can't take an enemy out on a miss - you can wear them down by just missing, but to take the foe out, you should have to connect.

And the spellcasters shouldn't get a pass on this either.

 

[Empath Negative]

I had an issue with the damage on a miss for a fighter until ai realized the wizard's been doing damage on a miss for year (1/2 damage on successful save and disintegrate's 2d8 damage on a miss as examples).

After thinking about it for a bit - and how the loss of hit points are "using up luck", scratches and grazes/near misses, I don't think its a bad idea for fighters to be given a small amount of damage on a miss.

I would prefer though, the above stipulation that you can't take an enemy out on a miss - you can wear them down by just missing, but to take the foe out, you should have to connect.

And the spellcasters shouldn't get a pass on this either.

Sigh. He didn't MISS YOU with a giant Fireball. The reflex save isn't about dodging the fireball. It's about reducing the damage.


Your Disintegrate is worse. Disintegrate is a Ray that: Requires a Ranged Touch Attack, Has a Save, and can be negated by spell resistance. This, incidentally, it why it can do ridiculously huge amounts of damage.

If you dodge the disintegrate it does zero damage. If the disintegrate lands but FAILS TO DESTROY YOU OUTRIGHT... it still does some damage. And if you resist it, of course, it does none.

 

[Obryn]

The problem I have with damage is that it seems to break the norm for what an attack is. Normally, a hit means meaningful contact, and a miss represents a lack of meaningful contact. Damage is dealt when you make meaningful contact. But here, either damage is being dealt without meaningful contact, or meaningful contact is being made on a miss. I assume the former.

In all seriousness - all the feat does is make it so you make more-meaningful contact on a miss. Because you're strong and furious and aggressive, and can hurt someone even when parried. So that kobold who tried to block your attack with his spear? It would have deflected a wimpy cleric's hammer blow, but your axe shears straight through it and into his skull. That orc relying on his armor and shield? He's got a heck of a bruise now that you dented his armor and rattled his shield-arm.

Honestly, I am left wondering why we're not worried about half damage on saves in the same way - I mean you saved, shouldn't that mean you escape major damage from the spell?

Now, with that said, I'm not a huge fan of Reaper for two reasons... (1) it's boring; and (2) if the main scaling in the system is going to be damage, it's going to get more and more meaningless over time. 3 hp against an 88 hp ogre is not going to keep it from caving your chest in with a tree branch.

-O

 

[Obryn]

Sigh. He didn't MISS YOU with a giant Fireball. The reflex save isn't about dodging the fireball. It's about reducing the damage.

Hate to ask this - but why isn't it about dodging the fireball?

-O

 

[Fifth Element]

And even better, the hero doesn't even have to leave his couch. He can swing at the bad guy from there and miss. He can clear an entire dungeon before lunch, then call it a day!

You've said this before, and I don't see the problem. I do most of my best monster-slaying while sitting on a couch, though I've also done it while sitting on a chair, a stool, and even a floor.

I would consider that the description of a hit that does minimal damage.

That's pretty much what this it. Minimal damage is key, as is the fact that everything in D&D combat is abstract.

 

[CleverNickName]

Hate to ask this - but why isn't it about dodging the fireball?

Narrative reason: because you are standing within a roaring ball of fire. It can't "miss" you because it is all around you. Instead, you are checking to see if you managed to cover up in time to avoid the full blast.

Game mechanics reason: Because there is no attack roll. You aren't rolling to determine whether or not the attack was successful; you are rolling to determine damage potential.