How Important is leveling in RPGs?

[Bluenose]

"Winning" by gaining currency is a feature of several versions of Traveller. It works for me.

"Winning" as gaining gear is a feature of most editions of D&D as well as games like WoW. It doesn't really appeal to me.

Currency in Traveller can lead to equipment, better gear, more gear. And the other way around, if you sell things you've "obtained".

"Winning" by gaining renown rather than levels intrigues me. Does anyone know a game that does this?

Pendragon? Completing adventures gains you fame even when there isn't any other reward, although every 1000 Fame points you do get a point to put into an ability. Renown is certainly something you can use in the game, although it's not always to your benefit.

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

I like the D&D style levelling system in D&D as it's an old sacred cow and works well.

However, I'm trying to think of another game that uses the same mechanic. Anyone? From my own experience nearly every other RPG I play characters improve by incremental methods, gaining skills or improvements in characteristics.

Ars Magica, Legend of the Five Rings, White Wolf games, Traveller - none of them use leveling.

 

[Viking Bastard]

I like the D&D style levelling system in D&D as it's an old sacred cow and works well.

However, I'm trying to think of another game that uses the same mechanic. Anyone? From my own experience nearly every other RPG I play characters improve by incremental methods, gaining skills or improvements in characteristics.

Ars Magica, Legend of the Five Rings, White Wolf games, Traveller - none of them use leveling.

I was trying to think of some yesterday. Couldn't think of any.

TSR's Alternity had levels, but they didn't seem to do much, IIRC. And was meant to be for sci-fi what D&D was to fantasy. Rolemaster has levels, I believe, but it also spun out of D&D.

I know there are plenty of people here more knowledgable on RPG trivia, though.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

However, I'm trying to think of another game that uses the same mechanic. Anyone? From my own experience nearly every other RPG I play characters improve by incremental methods, gaining skills or improvements in characteristics.

Ars Magica, Legend of the Five Rings, White Wolf games, Traveller - none of them use leveling.

The school ranks in Legend of the Five Rings has a level advancement aspect to it, although that's increased by improving skills and characteristics (aka your Insight) instead of using a straight XP total.

 

[Tuft]

It is fun with improvements that widens your palette, that enables you to do things you could not do previously...

However, the term leveling I nowadays mostly associate with meaningless numbers inflation, where abilities and target numbers march together in lockstep.

I'm a old-time techie taught to do math in my head ages ago - I know that comparing A+17 to B+18 is just the same as comparing A directly with B+1. Simplifying equations is second nature, and meaningless extra terms are just that, devoid of meaning and significance.

 

[am181d]

I like the D&D style levelling system in D&D as it's an old sacred cow and works well.

However, I'm trying to think of another game that uses the same mechanic. Anyone? From my own experience nearly every other RPG I play characters improve by incremental methods, gaining skills or improvements in characteristics.

Ars Magica, Legend of the Five Rings, White Wolf games, Traveller - none of them use leveling.

Of the games that still exist today that are not d20-derived, I think Palladium/Rifts is probably the most prominent example.

(And, of course, there are TONS of computer based RPGs that use this mechanic.)

But most tabletop RPG game designers decided a long time ago that (tradition aside) more gradual skill/ability-specific advancement is a better option.

 

[Bluenose]

I was trying to think of some yesterday. Couldn't think of any.

Dragon Age is the only recent RPG that I own which has D&D-style leveling in it. At least the only one that isn't a reprint or mod of an older system, such as DCC. I'm not sure they were ever particularly common compared to other experience systems without levels, but that may be my biases remembering for me.

 

[Summer-Knight925]

"Winning" by gaining renown rather than levels intrigues me. Does anyone know a game that does this?

I actually present the poll to see if an idea of mine would work.

The idea was to have a game where you don't level numerically, but in the narrative.

You wouldn't increase numbers on your character, abilities and skills wouldn't get better. Weapons and tools can, sure, and the GM may alter the Degrees of Success since you've been at it for a bit, but leaves most of it to narrative.

I've almost finished enough for a playtest, if anyone is interested...

 

[Mathew_Freeman]

The school ranks in Legend of the Five Rings has a level advancement aspect to it, although that's increased by improving skills and characteristics (aka your Insight) instead of using a straight XP total.

Yes, your Insight Rank is a measure of how much xp you've earned, rather than something that increases over a set interval.

It's interesting to me that the "original" RPG is one of the only games that use this mechanic. I'm fine with it and it works well (and allows players to keep their characters on an even footing, at least theoretically).

My preference, though, is that a skill based advancement systems gives more flexibility.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Vitally important to me.

Also I vastly prefer systems with granularity in advancement so a character can be improved nearly every secession in small increments, such as WFRP2E and the Warhammer 40K RPGs.

While I wouldn't say i vastly prefer it I do really enjoy these kinds of systems. In the end improvement in my PC of some kind is extremely important to me and my enjoyment of RPGs.