4th edition, The fantastic game that everyone hated.

[D'karr]

As for 1), well, what's that different about taking a feat to be a sorcerer and spending a level to be a sorcerer? I mean, I'll admit, the power-swap feats are too much of an investment. I've rolled their benefit into the main MC feats. But other than that, what? If you want your character to change from paladin-with-sorcerer to sorcerer-with-paladin, rebuild it! I can kinda dig the system mastery bit, but even then it's not like you need to know the guts of the classes to get reflavoring or weird character building right. Just basic descriptions and ability score preferences, with maybe some powers if you're being picky. :/

One of the things the designers of 4e did was to severely curtail multiclassing/dual classing. Multiclassing requires "real" investment rather than a passing "lip-service" to actually changing the basis of your character. This was a direct reaction to the abuse prone multiclassing found in 3.x, where a lot of multiclassing was being done to "fish" for mechanical benefits. IMO, the pendulum swung too far in the other direction.

Interestingly enough the core system is also solid enough to allow the DM to modify multiclassing, as he sees fit for his game/campaign, with very little mechanical impact. I'm one of those that has modified multiclassing, specifically because my players don't try to abuse the system. I've rolled all 3 of the multiclassing feats into one. The power swap feats are assumed as part of the multiclass feat, and it has not broken anything, yet. I think even themes can be used to good effect for multiclassing. If the DM doesn't feel comfortable modifying the systems, he still has other options.

The game provides a built in retraining system, that allows a player to change his decisions as he moves along. Usually, if you don't have jackholes as players, the game system can be rather easily tweaked to accommodate almost any option you like.

 

[pemerton]

Another call out for retraining. Of the five players in my group, three use it extensively (one I think retrains something every level to tweak and polish his PC) and all have used it at some stage.

 

[Imaro]

Does retraining allow one to switch classes? And isn't there a limit to how many things one can retrain?

 

[Siberys]

No, and yes, but any DM I know (in person, anyways) would let a player retrain more (or rebuild a character, for that matter) if things weren't working out or there was a good story reason.

EDIT: Regardless of edition, I should point out. I let that through several times in 3.x, and I've rebuilt one of my own characters (between 3.5, BESM, homebrew, and Pathfinder) several times over the course of an on-and-off campaign I play in.

 

[Imaro]

No, and yes, but any DM I know (in person, anyways) would let a player retrain more (or rebuild a character, for that matter) if things weren't working out or there was a good story reason.

EDIT: Regardless of edition, I should point out. I let that through several times in 3.x, and I've rebuilt one of my own characters (between 3.5, BESM, homebrew, and Pathfinder) several times over the course of an on-and-off campaign I play in.

Well there were actual retraining rules in 3.5... though not in 3.0.

 

[Nagol]

Well there were actual retraining rules in 3.5... though not in 3.0.

You could retrain in 3.0 after level 1; it was just... painful.

Step 1: Capture a level-draining undead
Step 2: Carefully expose onself to the undead to acquire only the sufficient number of negative levels
Step 3: Voluntarily fail your save to make the negative levels permanent
Step 4: Start earning more xp! Make certain to make better choices when you level next!

 

[D'karr]

You could retrain in 3.0 after level 1; it was just... painful.

Step 1: Capture a level-draining undead
Step 2: Carefully expose onself to the undead to acquire only the sufficient number of negative levels
Step 3: Voluntarily fail your save to make the negative levels permanent
Step 4: Start earning more xp! Make certain to make better choices when you level next!

You are right, that was painful. I didn't like it!

 

[Hussar]

Does retraining allow one to switch classes? And isn't there a limit to how many things one can retrain?

Sort of.

You could retrain a feat and take a multiclass feat. And, generally, you only get to retrain one thing per level.

Note, even the 3.5 rules didn't let you switch classes. That was... I forget the exact words and I don't have my PHB 2 in front of me. But completely switching classes was beyond the retraining rules.

 

[pemerton]

Does retraining allow one to switch classes?

Only in the secondary sense of changing multi-class.

I've had two PCs actually rebuilt in my 4e game: ranger multi-class cleric rebuilt as a hybrid ranger-cleric with muti-class paladin; and human wizard multi-class invoker reborn, after a Raise Dead ritual, as a deva invoker muti-class wizard.

The difference between this and retraining is that retraining is entirely under player authority, as an element of the stated PC build rules; whereas PC rebuilding is stepping outside the rules, and hence subject to GM/table agreement and cooperation.

Whether that difference is a big one or not I guess depends on how significant these distribution-of-authority matters are at any given table.

 

[Bedrockgames]

One of the things the designers of 4e did was to severely curtail multiclassing/dual classing. Multiclassing requires "real" investment rather than a passing "lip-service" to actually changing the basis of your character. This was a direct reaction to the abuse prone multiclassing found in 3.x, where a lot of multiclassing was being done to "fish" for mechanical benefits. IMO, the pendulum swung too far in the other direction.

option you like.

multiclassing in 3E was a double edged sword. On the one hand, when they first released the new rules, I loved how they simplified the multiclass system. That part of D&D had always been frustrating IMO and this really reduced some of the quirkiness. It really did make a difference for me. But as you point out, the class dipping and the unpredictability of some of the combos produced....unexpected results. This could work if you embraced, it could also work if you worked hard to curtail it. For me, really emphasizing the in game time investment made a huge difference. You didn't just take a level in x when you felt like it, you had to put in the training and often seek out people who could induct you (in the case of classes where there was that slrt of requirement). I think 4e responded to a problem many people genuinely had with the game. I dont fault them for tackling it and the way they went about it was more like classic D&D I think. But I would really like to see an effort made to preserve the flexibility and simplicity of the 3e multiclass system while eliminating mnag of its excesses.