• NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.

D&D 5E So what's the problem with restrictions, especially when it comes to the Paladin?

How about be mature or don't post in this thread?

I'm not going to speak for anyone else but I don't want that snark around here.
You want more serious responses? Try matching your OP with its title. (Are you asking the community a genuine question because you want friendly discussion, or do you want to rant with like-minded gamers? Nothing wrong with either one.) Entitling your thread as a question, and then launching immediately into a questionless rant is called a bait-and-switch and in this case especially its edition flamebait.

And you've been here for a couple years, so I think you know that.
 

log in or register to remove this ad

it's being Lawful Good and having a specific code to follow that could cause you to fall

To me, players are always welcome (and encouraged) to create roleplaying restrictions to make their characters more interesting. Its one of the hall marks of roleplaying.

That said, I don't need to see such roleplaying restrictions injected in the game. One guy wants to play the most straight laced, goody goody paladin. Another wants to play a near fallen paladin fighting for redemption. Another wants to play a once holy man that has completely fallen to the dark.

I say let them all in
 

Exactly. So there should be no alignment restrictions. The players and DMs that want a code the Paladin must follow can sit down and discuss it before the game. Anyone who doesn't want that doesn't have to deal with it.

Problem with this is [MENTION=91812]ForeverSlayer[/MENTION] wants a more powerful Paladin that is balanced in some way by its alignment restriction.

I want this too, but consider it so unlikely it's not even worth worrying about. It's too hardcore for most people these days.

You COULD have a paladin class that granted additional powers in exchange for making an oath to follow more and more restrictive codes of conduct. But then people who want the balanced, vanilla Paladin would be unhappy about that option being "gimped" by comparison.
 

To me, players are always welcome (and encouraged) to create roleplaying restrictions to make their characters more interesting. Its one of the hall marks of roleplaying.

That said, I don't need to see such roleplaying restrictions injected in the game. One guy wants to play the most straight laced, goody goody paladin. Another wants to play a near fallen paladin fighting for redemption. Another wants to play a once holy man that has completely fallen to the dark.

I say let them all in

So do I, but only one deserves the name "paladin." Call the others holy warriors or some such.
 



I'd like for the "paladin" to have a code of ethics based off the deity he's associated with, but I'd like to avoid the alignment restrictions, like we saw on monks and barbarians in 3E. The paladin/knight/blackguard seems a nice compromise so far.
 

In fairness I will say it's a step in the right direction to have have Lawful only but being Lawful Good makes you a bastion for everything that is good and just in the world and that is what makes a Paladin a Paladin.

Personally I think the problem with restrictions is that it is often hard to define them in a way that matches with the expectations, and the Paladin is the classic example.

Saying that "you must be Lawful and Good" sounds simple, but then different people have very different expectations on what "Good" means.

Even worse, is a "Lawful" character someone who has a lawful behaviour himself or someone who pretends that the others behave lawfully? Because these are 2 different things, and maybe the class description doesn't tell you which one, but some players are going to think that their Paladin needs to be lawful in the sense that she will never break the law, lie, get drunk etc. while other players are going to think that if they don't force others into being lawful then they aren't lawful enough. It happens all the time in real life, there is lawful tolerant and lawful intolerant, but lawful intolerant will always believe that the lawful tolerant aren't nearly as lawful as they should be (and similarly there are chaotic tolerant and chaotic intolerant).

When this doesn't have mechanical consequences to the game the problem evaporates into a mere roleplaying choice. If it has mild consequences such as adjudicating you're properly roleplaying your alignment, then it causes attrition at the game table but it can be solved, e.g. by changing the alignment tag on your character sheet but keep playing the same PC. When it is a formal restriction, then there can be a big problem, because not complying with the restriction usually means someone is going to ask you to severely change how you roleplay your character, keep going but receive harsh penalties, or piss off other people at the game table.

Simple labels ("Good", "Lawful") can work fine for beginners for a while, but soon they're going to learn they need more than that. Personally my favourite way of handling this is to encourage the player to write down her own "decalogue" of do's and dont's, and then stick to it in roleplay (unless voluntarily wanting to RP a more complicated character story).

As for the printed books, they could definitely have a few "sample decalogues" for example for a traditional LG Paladin, for a more L-oriented and for a more G-oriented.

While we're at it, I think they should do the same for other classes as well, in particular having a few different druidic codes would be interesting, but the books should always emphasize that codes must be agreed upon between players and DM instead of enforcing something as universal and as dumb as "cannot wear metal".

Alignment suggestions can still stay there, as long as it's clear that they are not absolute restrictions unless the gaming group wants them to be.
 
Last edited:

Restrictions give me more out of a class in all fairness. I enjoy the challenge of restrictions and to me a paladin is not a paladin without them.
 


Into the Woods

Remove ads

Top