D&D 5E Should the next edition of D&D promote more equality?

[Dannyalcatraz]

Your thesis that sexuality is off-limits in order to bring in more women is kind of self-defeating, considering plethysmographic studies show they are turned on by vastly more visual stimuli than we are (hence, contradicting the bias in many other people's posts here...but hey, let's not let reality intrude in a talk about D&D art, right?), we shall have to have no art at all.

1) nobody has said sexuality was off-limits. What has been said is that there should be an end to inappropriately sexualized imagery. Its the difference between "sexy" and "sexist."

2) that one sex or the other is more likely to be aroused by sexualized images is largely irrelevant to the purpose of commercial art in an RPG. D&D is a game marketed to young teens and up- male & female. It isn't Playboy (nor any publication within the same classification), which means the images within have a completely different purpose: stimulating the mind with images of the campaign world, not stimulating your little warrior.

 

[Sunseeker]

No, it's silly and that is the point.

I'm not arguing that the look isn't silly, I'm arguing that your argument is flawed because it's an inaccurate comparison. Read my blasted argument instead of simply just quoting me out of context and rebutting the meaningless strawman you turned my post into.

I have a high tolerance for reasonable discussion but I have NO tolerance for people misquoting me on purpose in order to make a false argument against something I didn't even say.

 

[Mike Eagling]

Because they are totally incompatible. You can be a Better Man, or you can be a Fun Man. I get it, you're sending us coded missives from Binary World!

Perhaps he would be better off playing "Men of Power"...

 

[Hussar]

Honestly, I am asking this question to all and sundry. Is WOTC and/or Paizo more guilty, same or less guilty of cheesecake now than they were in the past?

I would say that cheesecake has largely gone away. Not completely, and I totally understand the criticism. But, looking through the galleries on the WOTC site and the various art stuff on the Paizo site, I really don't see a whole lot of stuff that is too objectionable. Yup, it's not gone entirely. As was mentioned, the cover of the 4e DMG was a bit off putting perhaps. And the 4e PHB image might be arguable. Although, to be honest, I'm more likely to chalk that up to a single artist than to the brand as a whole.

It's pretty rare to see anything too objectifying isn't it? At least in DND books. Or, am I just not looking in the right (err... wrong?) places?

IOW, how big of an issue is this really? Are we talking Gor novel level or what?

 

[Morrus]

Honestly, I am asking this question to all and sundry. Is WOTC and/or Paizo more guilty, same or less guilty of cheesecake now than they were in the past?

I would say that cheesecake has largely gone away. Not completely, and I totally understand the criticism. But, looking through the galleries on the WOTC site and the various art stuff on the Paizo site, I really don't see a whole lot of stuff that is too objectionable. Yup, it's not gone entirely. As was mentioned, the cover of the 4e DMG was a bit off putting perhaps. And the 4e PHB image might be arguable. Although, to be honest, I'm more likely to chalk that up to a single artist than to the brand as a whole.

It's pretty rare to see anything too objectifying isn't it? At least in DND books. Or, am I just not looking in the right (err... wrong?) places?

IOW, how big of an issue is this really? Are we talking Gor novel level or what?

Of course it's much better than it was - for those particular companies at least. Hopefully that will continue into 5E (and we have no reason to think it won't). And eventually become default behaviour across the industry.

 

[Umbran]

Your thesis that sexuality is off-limits in order to bring in more women...

One problem: I made no such thesis.

You seem to have some difficulty grasping that. You are attributing positions to me that I have not taken, and arguing against statements I have not made, as if they were mine.

I don't care which posts you respond to - I care that when you respond to someone, you respond to what the other person actually said. To do otherwise is extremely rude.

 

[Nellisir]

I'm not arguing that the look isn't silly, I'm arguing that your argument is flawed because it's an inaccurate comparison. Read my blasted argument instead of simply just quoting me out of context and rebutting the meaningless strawman you turned my post into.

I have a high tolerance for reasonable discussion but I have NO tolerance for people misquoting me on purpose in order to make a false argument against something I didn't even say.

Dude, I just wasted 45 minutes writing a calm, measured, and reasonable response to your CAPS and italics and bolds to point out IT WAS A JOKE. The WHOLE POST was a joke. The WHOLE POST is silly. And stupid. On purpose. If I made an argument in there, then I'm totally sorry, it was AN ACCIDENT.

Smile a little. And have a penis sheath.

 

[Nellisir]

...considering plethysmographic studies show they are turned on by vastly more visual stimuli than we are ...

This is really misleading, and potentially dangerous. If you'd read the studies, you'd also know that the physiological changes measured are not indicative of mental or emotional arousal, but hypthesized as preparations for penetration, willing or not, to prevent damage to the body. Using the phrase "turned on" suggests that women are made emotionally receptive to sex by the images, which was emphatically not the case.

 

[Nellisir]

Honestly, I am asking this question to all and sundry. Is WOTC and/or Paizo more guilty, same or less guilty of cheesecake now than they were in the past?

Much better.

IOW, how big of an issue is this really? Are we talking Gor novel level or what?

It is much better than it was, but it's also become much less binary. It's not "men in armor, women in bonds"; it's "men in plate mail, women in sexy plate mail."
I'll try to remember to take a look at my pathfinder materials later and speak a little more directly. I don't have 4e books anymore.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

In general, I think most of the big names have gone from pure cheesecake to things like "breast"-plates and exposed navels, with a smattering of glamor-shot poses.