Your favourite non-D&D game?

[Ratskinner]

Our group has been very D&D focused for many, many years, but I've been dabbling with Savage Worlds with a splinter group, and I'm rapidly becoming one more fanboy.

I'm endlessly curious about other systems - Fate, Gumshoe, Shadowrun, L5R, and more .... but some members of our group are really dedicated to D&D.

So, I mostly just steal elements from other systems and drop them into D&D when I run it.

-rg

I feel for you, man. My current group has some die-hard gamist old-schoolers. They get easily upset over anything that might have been invented after 1990 or so. At times, they still talk about GURPS like its some wild "outsider" game with fantastic innovations.....

 

[Umbran]

One thing I liked in Palladium's Heroes Unlimited game were the random power generation tables for characters that got their powers from things like mutations. Like other Palladium games, the really was no concept of balance. But in a supers game- at least as a simulation of the genre- this was really appropriate. It is, AFAIK, unique.

I'm not familiar with Heroes Unlimited's system. However, the original (FASERIP) Marvel Superheroes game, released the same year as Heroes Unlimited, had tables not just for mutants, but for generating characters of all types - technically, you didn't get to choose if you were going to be a mutant, altered human, hi-tech wonder, or what have you. The tables did it. It was, the only system in the game for generating characters. No semblance of balance was present (or really expected).

 

[Radiating Gnome]

I feel for you, man. My current group has some die-hard gamist old-schoolers. They get easily upset over anything that might have been invented after 1990 or so. At times, they still talk about GURPS like its some wild "outsider" game with fantastic innovations.....

It's easy to be dismissive of "gamists" but that style of game is no better or worse than the more story-focused games I find myself drawn to.

Actually, Savage Worlds feels, to me, like it could be a very cool happy medium --- someone else in this thread referred to it as "rules-medium" and I really liked that -- it's a system that feels like it has some cool crunch where you want it, but it keeps the action fast and easy to maintain.

My ideal game scratches both gamist and story-ist gamer needs; it also needs to be flexible enough that I can make up my own material easily (building monsters with the 3.5 character building rules was great back when I had the hours to kill -- I don't have that anymore). And I need good digital tools -- character builders and other aids. Savage Worlds seems to have me covered on all of those fronts.

-rg

 

[Ratskinner]

It's easy to be dismissive of "gamists" but that style of game is no better or worse than the more story-focused games I find myself drawn to.

I wasn't aiming for dismissive as much as a tad frustrated. My compatriots are not all as flexible as I am wrt gaming enjoyment.

My ideal game scratches both gamist and story-ist gamer needs; it also needs to be flexible enough that I can make up my own material easily (building monsters with the 3.5 character building rules was great back when I had the hours to kill -- I don't have that anymore). And I need good digital tools -- character builders and other aids. Savage Worlds seems to have me covered on all of those fronts.

Generally, I think I tend to flip between modes depending on the night/game/mood. For rpgs, I tend to drift towards Narrative (at least, I don't see the point of naming characters and imagining a world if the story isn't what we're there for.) In such cases, I feel like the rules and dice should be there to sort of inspire or nudge along story/play. I've found myself increasingly frustrated with what I see as unnecessary complexity in D&D, even the older versions.

Which is not to say that I don't enjoy a good simmy or gamey game now and again. I'm perfectly happy playing SFB or the like. Heck, last night our group played Zombies!! due to low attendance and it was a blast.

Making up my own material easily is one of the reasons I like FATE. There's plenty of FATE GMs who can happily start a campaign with little to no prep and make things up as they go along....that's even the default method of starting a game in the FATE Core rules. I'm not a big fan of electronics at the gaming table. I consider simplicity such a virtue/necessity that I tend to dislike rpgs that are complicated enough to require or encourage the use of computers.

Out of curiousity, what about Savage Worlds scratches your gamist itches? I haven't played it or run it, but the rules don't strike me as terribly gamist.

 

[Radiating Gnome]

I'm not a big fan of electronics at the gaming table. I consider simplicity such a virtue/necessity that I tend to dislike rpgs that are complicated enough to require or encourage the use of computers.

I'm a huge gadget nerd, but that's not the only reason -- we have a player in our group whose physical limitations make digital aids a necessity -- especially for games that require complex tracking of character abilities and resources.

Out of curiousity, what about Savage Worlds scratches your gamist itches? I haven't played it or run it, but the rules don't strike me as terribly gamist.

Well, it's all about combat when it comes to gamist stuff. There need to be interesting tactical options so it's not just a matter of move and roll dice to see if your attach hits.

Now, you can play SW and just move and attack (at which point it can get lame and swingy like a lot of other games), but the combat system has a pretty robust set of options to play around with. For one thing, they've got really solid mechanics for "tests of wills" in combat -- taunts or intimidations that have a real impact of a target. It has good mechanics for tricks (someone else cited an example of a character picking up a can of beans, tossing it at the enemies and shouting "grenade"). There's a robust enough-yet-still-not-too-complex system for called shots and other ways to try to improve your chance to hurt your target.

The system is very light on the bookkeeping. Most figures have three states -- "Up, Down (shaken), or Off The Table." Shaken is a catch-all condition that represents stunned/distracted/scared/blinded/entangled/befuddled/whatever else. Being shaken, in game terms, denies you actions (until you recover) and makes you a bit easier to hurt. (Can you imagine how much simpler D&D combat could be if the list of conditions was limited to one catchall like shaken?)

PCs and important NPCs are "Wild Cards" who have wounds, and can therefore take a bit more punishment.

Anyway, this is the wrong place to discuss these mechanics in depth. Bottom line -- you can make good, smart, creative choices in combat - gamble on big risks or play it safe, etc. -- but it's still fast-moving and very light on the bookkeeping.

It's a very different game, though -- combat isn't really attrition-based. Not quite as far afield as FATE -- there's enough combat depth to keep the tactical wonks happy.


-rg

 

[Quickleaf]

I gotta say I'm not sure how well all that would fit together . Although, they all do have little bits of brilliance in them.

What would you take from Fiasco? I mean, it's brilliant, but so different from the others.

Quite a bit. From Fiasco: Adventures oriented toward character hooks/relationships, Tilt incorporated into rules (not just a complication in the adventure), and Aftermath giving players a FATE-like say in what goes wrong.

From FATE: There's a LOT I like in Fate Accelerated.

From GUMSHOE: Investigative skills and core clues.

From Dungeon World: Escalation die or the equivalent.

From Burning Wheel: Beliefs and a simplified version of the XP (Artha) system for sure. I haven't seen it yet, but my sense is Torchbearer will have some adaptable ideas.

 

[Ratskinner]

From Dungeon World: Escalation die or the equivalent.

Dungeon World doesn't have an escalation die...I think that's Dragon Age maybe(?).

Otherwise...

Get to work! I look forward to seeing your results.

 

[Quickleaf]

Dungeon World doesn't have an escalation die...I think that's Dragon Age maybe(?).

Otherwise...

Get to work! I look forward to seeing your results.

Whoops, yes Dragon Age. Sorry, mind blank.

Nah, I know better than to make a fantasy heartbreaker system That's the ONE thing all my years of gaming has taught me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I'm not familiar with Heroes Unlimited's system. However, the original (FASERIP) Marvel Superheroes game, released the same year as Heroes Unlimited, had tables not just for mutants, but for generating characters of all types - technically, you didn't get to choose if you were going to be a mutant, altered human, hi-tech wonder, or what have you. The tables did it. It was, the only system in the game for generating characters. No semblance of balance was present (or really expected).

Thanks for the info!

 

[Stormonu]

Legend of the Five Rings rpg. I love the background, the samurai code and strict social structure add a level of depth the players need to add into their characters. There are some serious holes in the game though, and way to much "GMs descretion" rules.

L5R was seriously in my mind for my first pick - the game world sans mechanics is THE campaign world I love best. You're right though that the rules have some sticking points that can get annoying, and I really dislike the rulebook layout.

I've been wondering how well the game would run under Savage Worlds - anyone know of a conversion anywhere?