How did Trek Become Such a Phenomenon?

[Janx]

Do you think it is plausible that there would be advanced alien species with mindsets that we could at least understand the broad strokes of, given convergent evolution?

This is actually a cool question that has nothing to do with what's wrong with a TV show. I like it.

Let's assume we're talking aliens that use tools, have technology (space ships?) and not alien wild life. We barely understand cats, why would we assume we could understand 3 legged galumphs of the mountain acid marshes of Xenos Prime?

So I'm envisioning an alien society (more than one alien), that built a ship, and is travelling in space, and our ship, the Enterprise encounters them.

Aside from the problem that I can't envision an alien mindset different from my own, what is the probability that an alien species could achieve all that AND not have some mindset traits in common with humans?

Humans need food, so do aliens
Humans try to reproduce, so do aliens
Humans use tools, so do aliens
Humans develop interstellar space ships, so do aliens

I have no doubt there will be cultural differences, we have that here on earth (Japanese or chinese music is based on a 5 note scale, as opposed to the 8 note octave that everybody else uses). Clearly, some different ways of evolving in a subject for separate societies.

But I find it unlikely that the alien species would be incomprehensible to us. Psychologists, sociologists, and anthropologists would probably study them and identify how they view things and what real earth cultures they are similar to in their beliefs and behaviors.

 

[MarkB]

^
What would be an example of an extremely realistic procedural show?

I won't claim "extremely realistic", but Castle manages to avoid playing fast-and-loose with forensics most of the time, doesn't use massive computer displays (except in one episode that did it for laughs), and avoids some of the sillier genre cliches - for instance, whilst the show is fond of the last-act villain confrontation, they don't rely on provoking a confession, but go in already possessing the evidence they need.

 

[sabrinathecat]

^
What would be an example of an extremely realistic procedural show?

The SandBaggers
Original Hawaii 5-O.
Both are dated, and Sandbaggers is more espionage, but both were very realistic and groundbreaking for their time. (Supposedly several US agencies use Sandbaggers to break their agents of the illusion of becoming James Bond.)

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

So I'm envisioning an alien society (more than one alien), that built a ship, and is travelling in space, and our ship, the Enterprise encounters them.

Aside from the problem that I can't envision an alien mindset different from my own, what is the probability that an alien species could achieve all that AND not have some mindset traits in common with humans?

Humans need food, so do aliens
Humans try to reproduce, so do aliens
Humans use tools, so do aliens
Humans develop interstellar space ships, so do aliens

I have no doubt there will be cultural differences, we have that here on earth (Japanese or chinese music is based on a 5 note scale, as opposed to the 8 note octave that everybody else uses). Clearly, some different ways of evolving in a subject for separate societies.

But I find it unlikely that the alien species would be incomprehensible to us. Psychologists, sociologists, and anthropologists would probably study them and identify how they view things and what real earth cultures they are similar to in their beliefs and behaviors.

Careful, you're getting dangerously close to critical thought.

When we finally start communicating with real aliens, I think it'll be surprising to most of us how similar their motivations and mindsets are to ours. And I think the differences will appear in very unexpected aspects, like if we find out that they evolved from a rodent-like species so they have whiskers and tails which they lean on when standing upright. Or maybe their evolutionary path will have been similar to ours, except for different environmental nutrients, which resulted in anime-colored hair.

Should be very interesting for evolution theorizing!

 

[Umbran]

Do you think it is plausible that there would be advanced alien species with mindsets that we could at least understand the broad strokes of, given convergent evolution?

Excellent question. And my answer is Yes. Here's why:

The Universe is the same everywhere. Same laws, same physical reality. So, there must be some base similarities in there, as we are all dealing with the same physical universe. If we are dealing with intelligent, space-faring civilizations, that implies a lot more - like understanding of higher mathematics and physics, for example.

Will there be cultural differences? Sure. Language differences? Of course. But, given that both species are dealing with the same universe, we start with a common ground, and can work from there.

In the canonical example of "we meet an alien species we don't understand" (Ender's Game), the author has to invoke aliens that use completely unknown physics not just for their technology, but for their most basic of communication between individuals, so that it is impossible to communicate, not based on cultural differences, but a physical barrier.

 

[Jhaelen]

Well, my favorite explorations of encounters with truly 'alien' aliens are the novels by Stanislaw Lem. Apart from the well-known Solaris, there's Fiasko, the Invincible, etc. - all of them highly recommended.

Are they good material for a TV show, though? Probably not. (Although there actually exists a German TV show called 'Ijon Tichy' based on a recurring character from his more humoristic stories!)

 

[sabrinathecat]

Aliens we can understand? Alan Dean Foster made a writing career out of various First Contact novels with different aliens, and what it took for those races and humans to be able to understand each other.

 

[Janx]

Careful, you're getting dangerously close to critical thought.

When we finally start communicating with real aliens, I think it'll be surprising to most of us how similar their motivations and mindsets are to ours. And I think the differences will appear in very unexpected aspects, like if we find out that they evolved from a rodent-like species so they have whiskers and tails which they lean on when standing upright. Or maybe their evolutionary path will have been similar to ours, except for different environmental nutrients, which resulted in anime-colored hair.

Should be very interesting for evolution theorizing!

Well, it's possible for a telekinetic pseudopod that communicates by smell. they can use their mind to move things (like building a space ship and holding it together in space). So they won't be used to us vibrating air around to communicate, and we're just going to think they stink.

But we can both probably point at things, which will allow us to start referring to objects and ourselves, which will probably get us somewhere in rudimentary communication.

 

[Umbran]

Well, it's possible for a telekinetic pseudopod that communicates by smell. they can use their mind to move things (like building a space ship and holding it together in space). So they won't be used to us vibrating air around to communicate, and we're just going to think they stink.

Except we already know of some species that communicate chemically - ants, for example. So, when all else fails, we'll start checking that.

And, maybe they won't be used to vibrating air to communicate, but they are likely to be able to sense air vibrations (because whether or not they talk, knowing when a stinkless slug-eater is sneaking up on them is a good thing).

Remember, even someone who is deaf and blind from birth can figure out how to communicate, if given an option.

 

[Tequila Sunrise]

Well, it's possible for a telekinetic pseudopod that communicates by smell. they can use their mind to move things (like building a space ship and holding it together in space). So they won't be used to us vibrating air around to communicate, and we're just going to think they stink.

But we can both probably point at things, which will allow us to start referring to objects and ourselves, which will probably get us somewhere in rudimentary communication.

Quite the optimist, aren't you?

I imagine we'll be communicating with them via very long distance radio waves before we ever get close enough to smell or hear each other.