D&D 5E How about this for 5E Campaign Settings: "Classic Worlds of D&D"

[MJS]

That seems to be one dominant view these days. And all of us DMs have stolen liberally from other sources or borrowed from adventures for our own campaigns. If 5e really is meant to be an Everyman's D&D I could see them turning the clock waaay back to the Hommlet model, where the modules become discrete settings (with maps, etc) that individual DMs can connect however they like. It would make sense since supposedly they're wanting a more adventure-focused product release. We'll see what happens.

Sure. Of course Homlett is Greyhawk, isn't it? I luckily got a VGC monochrome copy as part of a lot a few years back that essentially cost me nothing.

I have a strange fascination with modules and settings. I find them inspiring and boring all at once.
I have around 20-30 them, plus a Ruins of Undermountain set, and have never run any of it. I can't say I've cannibalized much, either. Yet I love reading the stuff. I love seeing how different people design adventures, and of course, there's often great artwork.
But when I sit down to write, it's all me. And I find my preference for source material is not RPG books.

since people are mentioning Krynn, I will chime in: loved those first 6 books, have never owned or read a Krynn module, but one thing I like in the 1E sourcebook are the effects of the three moons. MU's in Krynn are basically 3 sub-classes , or proto speciality mages.
also like that Tiamat was rightfully made a greater Goddess in Krynn mythology...

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

Fair enough, I expected that. However, that brings us closer to the meat of the issue.

How is a reboot of the Forgotten Realms (resetting the clock to the original iteration in the grey box) going to substantially differ from the 3e Forgotten Realms book? I'd say that's pretty much the top bar right now (that and Golarion) There would be minor changes, a few gods switched out (Mystra instead of Mystra, or something), and fewer dwarves and elves. Otherwise, same thing.

How would a reboot of Greyhawk significantly differ from the 3e Campaign Gazeteer? It's true, the gold box is actually pretty slim - so what do you beef it up with? In the case of Greyhawk, all the deities are the same; you get a few new countries and the status quo shifts a tiny bit, but otherwise?

GOtta run

Setting aside Forgotten Realms, as it will likely be the default setting and have more robust coverage, I think it's plenty easy to find ways to fill a setting book with useful information. For Greyhawk, you take the basic content from the Greyhawk Gazateer, but fill in more details. Perhaps flesh out a starting area and provide a detailed guide to the Free City of Greyhawk. Perhaps even include the Castle Greyhawk adventure, plus numerous smaller adventures and seeds.

 

[Quartz]

For Greyhawk there's 40 years of lore to compile and winnow from all the modules, Gary's notes, Dragon articles, Dungeon adventures, and online stuff. I disagree with going right back to pre-Wars. I think advancing the timeline (but not the technology) considerably is the way to go. That way you could have tieflings as humans tainted by the ancient empires of Iuz and Ivid, Eladrin as elves returning from the Lendore Isles, Dragonborn as from the Chinese-analog empire to the west contesting with the Flanaess over the recovering Sea of Dust, and so on. Advancing the time considerably gives a clear gap between the old and the new.

As for Dragonlance, I found the times between the founding of the Knights of Solamnia and the Cataclysm most appealing from a play POV.

 

[Jan van Leyden]

That seems to be one dominant view these days. And all of us DMs have stolen liberally from other sources or borrowed from adventures for our own campaigns. If 5e really is meant to be an Everyman's D&D I could see them turning the clock waaay back to the Hommlet model, where the modules become discrete settings (with maps, etc) that individual DMs can connect however they like. It would make sense since supposedly they're wanting a more adventure-focused product release. We'll see what happens.

That's actually a cool idea. But it's probably a thin line to walk between being completely insular and self containd, and having too much connections to and bearing on the outside world.

The first extreme could easily be unremarkable and bland, the second one more difficult to port and adapt (which couldn't be the primary goal of a published adventure).

Perhaps some sort of interface is needed to describe such an adventure. Take Red Hands of Doom as an example (going from memory, here): you need a rather remote stretch of land with independent towns. The tradeways shouldn't be so important that outside forces would come to save the day. You need a swamp in your area and some sunken ruins. I would love to have some information before reading through the whole thing in order to be able to decide whether I can use it.

WotC used a similar approach in the very first days of 4e, by the way. They published an eDragon article on how to place Keep of the Shadowfell (or was it Rescue at Rivenroar? Damn, work spoils my concentration) in the Realms, complete with changed NSCs and all that stuff. I had high hopes for this approach back in the day, but sadly they didn't follow up on this.

 

[Quickleaf]

[MENTION=20307]Jan van Leyden[/MENTION]
Yes, that's the sort of approach I was thinking. They could have a section in each adventure about how to adopt it for their main campaign settings. So, like with the cleric in the 5e playtest they use generic god titles, the same could be done with place names and then the setting appendix would explain how to customize those names and the adventure to suit each setting.

I agree, however, that this might be a tall order. And it yet remains to be seen whether WOTC can return to adventures of the Red Hand of Doom's quality.

 

[Nellisir]

Setting aside Forgotten Realms, as it will likely be the default setting and have more robust coverage, I think it's plenty easy to find ways to fill a setting book with useful information. For Greyhawk, you take the basic content from the Greyhawk Gazetteer, but fill in more details.

Well, the From the Ashes was an enhancement of the gold box (if you read through, you'll find many of the entries are the same, but with additional material), and the Greyhawk Gazetteer was an expansion of that (ditto). So what you're proposing is still a rewrite of the Gazetteer.

Perhaps flesh out a starting area and provide a detailed guide to the Free City of Greyhawk. Perhaps even include the Castle Greyhawk adventure, plus numerous smaller adventures and seeds.

The Adventure Begins and the Greyhawk Player's Guide does exactly that. Should WotC bundle those and the Star Cairns adventures into one hardbound? (The Adventure Begins, btw, repeats a lot of material from the City of Greyhawk boxed set, which is pre-Wars and set in 576 CY).

Here's the thing: I still don't see where you're really adding material value* by turning back the timeline. The Greyhawk Gazetteer has details - it's a 192 page book. You're simultaneously proposing to strip it down ("take the basic content") and fluff it up ("fill in more details"). In the end, you'll be right back where you started. Most of the information in the Gazetteer is relevant to either era, so why eliminate it.


*You might be adding a sort of karmic value among people who reject the Greyhawk Wars, but you're losing the same among people who accept it.

 

[Nellisir]

For Greyhawk there's 40 years of lore to compile and winnow from all the modules, Gary's notes, Dragon articles, Dungeon adventures, and online stuff.

That is essentially what Moore, Mona, et al. did with The Adventure Begins and the Greyhawk Gazetteer. Eric Mona, Roger Moore, Gary Holian, Fred Weining, and Sean K. Reynolds - that was and is the Greyhawk dream team*. Who would you propose to improve on them?

*except, yes, Gary Gygax, but he's dead, so it's not happening.

 

[Nellisir]

I'm not against big setting books. I'm not against big setting books that compile and repeat information from previous books. The 3e FR campaign guide is the book to beat right now. But if you're going to do it, and particularly if you're going to roll back the timeline at the same time, you've got to sell it with something concrete; a compelling reason to reject the events that happened after X point in history. "Adding details" or "compiling lore" aren't compelling when the details have already been added and the lore already compiled.

I want to buy into it, but you've got to sell me on it.

 

[Nellisir]

Sure. Of course Homlett is Greyhawk, isn't it? I luckily got a VGC monochrome copy as part of a lot a few years back that essentially cost me nothing.

I have a strange fascination with modules and settings. I find them inspiring and boring all at once.
I have around 20-30 them, plus a Ruins of Undermountain set, and have never run any of it. I can't say I've cannibalized much, either. Yet I love reading the stuff. I love seeing how different people design adventures, and of course, there's often great artwork.
But when I sit down to write, it's all me. And I find my preference for source material is not RPG books.

Trust me, you're not alone. A long-ago poll revealed that something like 80% of the buyers of Dungeon magazine never played anything from the magazine; they just bought it to read. I think I used a grand total of two adventures in twenty years, plus a few maps, and I've never run a prepackaged stand-alone module. I've owned (and sold) almost every 2e and 3e product, but actually using them? Nope.

 

[DMZ2112]

Eliminating the hypotheticals as much as possible, the core setting of D&D5 is going to be Forgotten Realms, and I personally have always had a mental block when it comes to adopting the Forgotten Realms. I find it unapproachable. There's too much going on, and when I try to engage it I am always feeling like I am missing something, or doing something wrong.

So what would Wizards have to put in a D&D5 Forgotten Realms core book to change that for me?

Well, for starters I need a local map. Probably a few maps, because the chances that Wizards' idea of an appealing starting location and my idea of one are different. So let's say that Wizards gives me a few maps and one of them is of the Moonshae Isles, which I'm pretty fond of. Douglas Niles' novels are excellent, the Isles fit my mental image of a good D&D setting, and they're removed enough from high-traffic regions like the Dalelands or the Sword Coast that I don't immediately feel intimidated by the weight of history.

This map has to be detailed enough that I have three to six clear points of light for my characters to travel between, and the same number of points of darkness to explore (maybe a few more). So that's a dozen or so points of interest in the region.

I need enough current detail on these points of interest that I can make them feel distinct to my players within the framework of the Isles. What does it look like, who lives there, what are they doing. No maps; I'm already pushing the page limit on this idea.

Finally, I need a history of the region that hits the high notes and doesn't get boggy. Specifically, this treatment should answer the question, "Why are the Moonshaes like this today?" Ideally, this would contain references to older material I could find on dndclassics.com, like 1987's Moonshae, or 2008's Forgotten Realms Campaign Guide, rather than rehashing detail from past eras.

Eventually I'm going to want to leave the Isles (maybe), so the book obviously needs to cover all of Faerun in some detail. Major settlements should be given the "what, who, why" treatment, and each one should have two or three adventure hooks nearby so I can get a high-level feel for the region.

Something else that would be really helpful, particularly for the Forgotten Realms, would be a section on major global players and their current plots. Not just "what, who, why," but also where they are likely to have impact. A detailed look at recent and current events, and maybe some projections into possible outcomes.

Finally, I'll need a high-level world map and history to give all of this cohesion, descriptions and D&D5 stats for the major races, and religion details. The Greyhawk stuff.