D&D 5E Pew Pew magic......AHHHHHHH! Make martials all day swingers and casters limited per day slingers.

[Dausuul]

Yes. There's drastically reduced availability, and also a sense that the ability, once gained, has been earned. At-will cantrips effectively mean that anyone who has even a passing interest of magic has an infinite supply of it...

No. It means anyone who can use magic has an infinite supply. Traditionally, D&D setting material suggests that you have to study for many years to become a wizard at all. Furthermore, in many settings (e.g., Dragonlance), magic requires an inborn talent which few possess. If you don't have it, no amount of studying will help.

Obviously, 3E-style multi-classing raises a few questions around this, but the assumption is that if you multi-class to wizard, you have the talent and have been studying for a long time, and your studies have finally begun to bear fruit. The XP and level system has never held up to scrutiny very well anyhow.

 

[Mistwell]

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW!

Also, you need to go and read a bit of The Dresden Files to get your facts straight. Harry would be completely exhausted amd have to sleep after casting his spells. He couldn't cast no where near all day.

Yes but it's in no way Vancian, and as I said it's based on HIS WILL. Some days he can cast more, some less. He can cast the same spell over and over again, and chooses which spell to cast as he casts it. He can store magical energy in objects over time. There is nothing about magic in the Dresden Files that resembles Vancian Magic.

Now if you want a spell-point system where you drain energy you take temporary Constitution or Wisdom damage as you cast spells, I'd be down with that. Other game systems have something similar to that. But, that doesn't seem to be what you're advocating.

Edit: Moving to this thread instead.

 

[Ahnehnois]

The 1st level wizard has paid a price for it - the opportunity to have something else.

Not much of a cost. What else is there for an 18 Int, 8 Str individual to do with his time? Learn chess?

As for the rest - D&D has mortals able to cast Wish, flying dragons, golems, undead, gods with worldly presence, curing disease, elves, fireballs, fairies, unicorns... Tell me it's not high magic.

Higher than it could be, but also not nearly as high as it could be. And it depends on setting. FR is nice, but too high magic for me, for instance.

Right after you round up a hundred commoners and have them turn wheels all day because they'll never get tired

They don't?

 

[Ahnehnois]

No. It means anyone who can use magic has an infinite supply. Traditionally, D&D setting material suggests that you have to study for many years to become a wizard at all. Furthermore, in many settings (e.g., Dragonlance), magic requires an inborn talent which few possess. If you don't have it, no amount of studying will help.

Obviously, 3E-style multi-classing raises a few questions around this, but the assumption is that if you multi-class to wizard, you have the talent and have been studying for a long time, and your studies have finally begun to bear fruit. The XP and level system has never held up to scrutiny very well anyhow.

Yes, it does take some time to become a 1st level wizard; the "passing interest" wasn't meant literally. That said, the point remains that it isn't a very high bar to set for someone to have access to infinite magic.

It's a very setting-specific question as to who can learn magic, but in any version of D&D, a 1st level character is not a particularly special individual (or at least, not simply by virtue of being a 1st level character).

 

[ForeverSlayer]

Could a grand cabal of liches and other mages to stand outside keeps and towns, blasting them with Rays of Frost all day every day.



Edit: pew pew pew pew pew pew.

 

[Obryn]

PEW PEW PEW PEW PEW!

Also, you need to go and read a bit of The Dresden Files to get your facts straight. Harry would be completely exhausted amd have to sleep after casting his spells. He couldn't cast no where near all day.

Except, as I mentioned, D&D lacks fatigue mechanics. You don't get tired from swinging a sword around, casting cantrips, etc.

Implement combat fatigue mechanics and you have a point. Until then, it's something that happens on a fictional level without any mechanical underpinning.

Not much of a cost. What else is there for an 18 Int, 8 Str individual to do with his time? Learn chess?

Higher than it could be, but also not nearly as high as it could be. And it depends on setting. FR is nice, but too high magic for me, for instance.

Once you have all the magic stuff that's in D&D - and there's a lot of it, everywhere - low power, at will spells hardly beggar the imagination.

In a low magic game, it's appropriate to have a number of modules modifying game rules, and I expect spell casting in general, not just cantrips, would be targeted for modification.

 

[Morrus]

When people are both reporting each other simultaneously, somebody's being a jerk. Cut it out, please, folks. I have things I need to do.

 

[Obryn]

Could a grand cabal of liches and other mages to stand outside keeps and towns, blasting them with Rays of Frost all day every day.

Edit: pew pew pew pew pew pew.

Couldn't the same liches get together 300 archers a whole lot easier, doing more damage at longer range, and basically never running out of arrows given D&D's awesome economy?

Could those 300 or whatever 1st level wizards all cast Magic Missile at Asmodeus and kill him instantly?

Obviously these are crucial questions.

 

[Wulfgar76]

Never said they were game breakingly powerful, just mind numbing boring.

And if they were limited to say, 5x/day, they would suddenly metamorphose like into something wondrously exciting right.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Obviously these are crucial questions.

I guess the real crucial question is whether a wizard will ever stoop to the level of a lowly muggle and take an action that doesn't involve casting a spell. Like using a crossbow. Oh the horror!