D&D 5E Pew Pew magic......AHHHHHHH! Make martials all day swingers and casters limited per day slingers.

[Grydan]

See, I take the exact opposite viewpoint. I mean, it's absurd that someone could swing a sword all day. It's freaking heavy, and even if every roll that doesn't meet or exceed the target's AC is indeed a complete whiff that only connects with air, the hits you do get in obey that whole 'every action has an equal and opposite reaction' rule, which means eventually your arm is going to get a bit sore. It's entirely implausible to keep on swinging all day long, unless you're John Henry (in which case you'll drop dead at the end of the day, which kind of sucks) or a robot of some sort.

Meanwhile, why shouldn't casters be able to cast pew-pew magic all day? Magic is an external force that they're controlling by waving their hands about and muttering silly words, which (from personal experience waving my hands about and muttering silly words, though with sadly a lack of any notable magic effect, unless you count making people look at me funny) is far less tiring than swinging a sword about (nevermind the whole making-sure-the-other-guy-with-the-sword-doesn't-hit-you-back bit). It's not like magic itself is getting tired. And most importantly, in the immortal words attributed (possibly incorrectly) to former Marvel Comics Editor-in-Chief Joe Quesada,"It's magic, we don't have to explain it."

 

[KidSnide]

I'll say again that I agree that the DMG should offer a balanced, playtested optional rule to support this playstyle, but I think the designers got it right in picking the default. It's fun to be able to play D&D with all its old-school extra-challenging aspects, but I think most wizards players want to be able to cast some kind of spell every round.

I think ForeverSlayer is right about wands, however. IME, an unlimited supply of wands is a 3.x phenomenon. In my AD&D games, wand charges were a precious commodity.

-KS

 

[Sadras]

I just want to say first off that I can't stand Pew Pew magic. (snip)
What made playing casters interesting and challenging was the fact that you had to use judgement when deciding which spells to use and which ones to save. I feel like that's been lost ever since the addition of Pew Pew magic.

Conceptually I agree with not having an unlimited magic supply. Thankfully my players have not abused it - not that they could as combats last but a few rounds (less than a minute) so there is no chance for too much "pew-pew"

In 5e we recently ran a tactical combat (4e style) and it lasted 14 rounds and not one pew-pew was fired by the PCs and the wizard was out of spells during the start of the encounter - he did have 1 level in fighter though . The opposition did fire off two though - cheeky bastards!

To curb such use of magic outside of combat we have introduced houserules where continuous use of cantrips at a time (5 min or more) causes physical complications for the caster.

You might even decide in giving casters a mana pool just for the sole purpose of cantrips, so it is limited. The Mana system makes sense for magic that is not vancian magic. You could even introduce uses for expending more Mana for additional benefits..etc

 

[Kobold Stew]

What made playing casters interesting and challenging was the fact that you had to use judgement when deciding which spells to use and which ones to save. I feel like that's been lost ever since the addition of Pew Pew magic.

If only there were a way for the casters you play to be able to stay interesting and challenging, so that you had to use judgement when deciding which spells to use.

Oh, wait, there is. Don't take the pew-pew spells, and accept that other players might possess different interests and enjoy different challenges than you do.

 

[Ahnehnois]

I'm a fan of the warlock (3e). I don't take for given that there should be spell slot/point limitations on a daily basis. It's one way of doing things, and potentially a good way, and certainly the classic D&D way. But not the only way.

Conversely, I do agree that there should be no limitations on how much you can fight other than tangible physical ones. If you're too tired or injured to swing a sword, that should penalize or disable you. Otherwise, you should be good to go.

In general, I think resource management is a bad thing. It's not why most of us are playing the game and it amounts to a distraction and a headache. If anything, I'd rather start from a perspective of no daily resources whatsoever and build something faintly Vancian on to that as an option.

 

[howandwhy99]

I just want to say first off that I can't stand Pew Pew magic. I don't think there should be any at will spells except maybe read magic. I would like to see casters go back to being completely limited in their spells per day. I think the realm of at will and no limited attacks per day, or even per encounter, should fall solely on the martials.

What made playing casters interesting and challenging was the fact that you had to use judgement when deciding which spells to use and which ones to save. I feel like that's been lost ever since the addition of Pew Pew magic.

Part of this is stopping the belief of creature encounters as somehow inherently combats. And then the belief that the game is about a series of combat encounters. Maybe for some fighter players, but definitely not for wizard players.

Exploring the world of magic is dangerous enough on its own. Going out and tracking more down is exceedingly more successful than holing up in one's tower, but it's also exceedingly more deadly. It should pay to go adventuring in such a world, and not simply because it may seek to kill you. Magic Users don't combat magic, they study it and use it to their own ends. So Magical Effects tend to be pretty bad ass. We need to un-nerf them from damage-only, or damage-light effects, including almost how they are almost always measure in seconds now and not days, years, or longer. The wizard's game isn't measured in seconds, so number of spells per second cast can only make them even more mundane, regardless of effect.

 

[TwoSix]

In my ideal D&D Next, clerics would be the class to get the at-will magic effects. (The warlock should be a variant cleric anyway). The cleric and the fighter should be the tactically-focused, no-prep classes. The rogue and wizard should be the strategically-focused, preparative classes. (To use one of our favorite ENWorld analogies, Fighter and Cleric are for Combat as Sport, and Rogue and Wizard are for Combat as War).

My personal belief is that they should stop trying to make the base classes cover all the pillars, and instead make them hyper-focused on their core competencies. Expansion of versatility is easy to add with subclasses and multiclassing.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

Could someone define "pew-pew magic" for me? I'm not hip to the youngsters' new lingo.

 

[Dausuul]

How about..... hmmmmmm.... Two Pump Chump magic?

I prefer "Grampa Simpson Magic," because you forget stuff that happened three seconds ago.

As for the idea that casters no longer have to use judgement in casting spells--that's ridiculous. I've played a wizard in 5E and I can say that it's much more demanding than either 3E or 4E, and close to AD&D, in terms of resource management. Cantrips won't get you very far; when you have to fall back on attack cantrips, it's not much better than falling back on crossbow and dagger.

The one cantrip that is arguably overpowered is minor illusion, especially in the hands of an illusionist (who can create both sound and image instead of having to choose one or the other). A clever wizard can do some really heinous things with that. But the ability to shoot a cold beam for 1d8 damage? Meh. If you have a decent Dexterity, a crossbow will do just as well--you sacrifice a couple points off your attack in exchange for adding a couple to your damage. The cantrip does get better starting at level 5, but by that point you have enough proper spell slots that your at-will options are becoming less significant.

Could someone define "pew-pew magic" for me? I'm not hip to the youngsters' new lingo.

It's a derogatory term for at-will attack cantrips (currently ray of frost, chill touch, and shocking grasp).

 

[Kobold Stew]

It's a derogatory term for at-will attack cantrips (currently ray of frost, chill touch, and shocking grasp).

It's interesting to me that fewer are concerned about the cleric's Sacred Flame. One reason may be that it requires a Dex save and not an attack roll? That's a guess). And no one care a whit about Shillelagh (perhaps because it's not a ranged attack?).

But I took pew-pew to refer to attack cantrips.